222 | From Duplexes to 1400 Units: The Journey of a Multifamily Real Estate Investor

May 5

[00:00:00] Chaz Wolfe: What do you think for you gave you that like, I'm worth more or I'm worth passive income. Like there's an understanding changing time for money. Right? And we obviously go back to Rich Dad, Poor Dad, the basics of of time for money. But what gave you this gumption to say, I'm worth more, I'm worth actually building something that pays me whether I continue to do it or not?

Yeah. I mean... . What's up everybody? I'm Chaz Wolf gathering the King's podcast. This morning I've got Joe Sullivan on the King stage, another Kansas City, and my brother. How you

[00:01:18] Joe Sullivan: doing? What's up, Chaz? Local guys

[00:01:20] Chaz Wolfe: here. Yeah, happy here. I appreciate you being here.

all the way across.

[00:01:25] Joe Sullivan: Over in Olathe. Yeah. A total of 20, 25 minutes away.

[00:01:30] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I, I told this, told this dude before we hit the, record button, but, I, I really am looking to, level up the studio here and have some folks come here and, gosh, we've had a lot more people from Kansas City on the show than I, than I would've thought.

But, it just pushes me every single time I'm like, man, I really gotta do this so soon. Coming soon. Joe, tell us what kind of business that you have.

[00:01:50] Joe Sullivan: I am a multi-family, owner operator. Investor.

[00:01:54] Chaz Wolfe: Love it. Yep, love it. Everything. Multi-family, right?

[00:01:58] Joe Sullivan: Yeah. All, all multi-family. no, you know, at least I try no shiny object syndrome for me right now, so

[00:02:04] Chaz Wolfe: it's tough when there's money involved.

but I get the, get the idea of focus. Well, there's a lot of people interested in multi-family and so I think we're gonna have a great conversation here today. I was even telling you that I've got folks in my mastermind. These are big business owners and a lot of times guys are like, look, man, where do, what do, where do I put my money?

And, obviously you and I both have invested in real estate, at, at a pretty, pretty nice clip. And, so I think we'll be able to give some value to the listeners as well as, you know, anybody who's willing to, take a look at the investing route. I wanna know, Joe, before we get in, kinda like the nitty gritty of your business and a little bit of your story.

Why, why multi-family? Why are you a business owner? Why not just work in corporate America? Like, what's the deeper seated burning desire of Joe

[00:02:47] Joe Sullivan: Sullivan? Yeah, well I did work in corporate America, for 12 years after school. So that was, and that was probably the thing that pushed me away from corporate America, is to, to, you know, be in control of my time.

and my family's time, and really just being in charge of my own, destiny. that, that's, that's the big why. You know, I've got four, four kids, four girls, ages 11 down to two, and, wanted to, you know, I'm doing this for them, essentially. You know, I have a, I have a, I feel like I have a greater purpose, than that.

I haven't really pinpointed exactly what that is. I will find it someday, but I just have this feeling. You know, the first and foremost it's for my, my children and their children.

[00:03:30] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. And did I hear you right and say you had four

[00:03:33] Joe Sullivan: girls? Four girls, yeah. Four girl dads? Yep.

[00:03:37] Chaz Wolfe: Well, I've got three. and, and one, one snuck out.

and my son, so we're, we're sitting pretty similar, but man, those girls, they wreck you, they wreck that heart.

[00:03:45] Joe Sullivan: Yep, yep. Right before the, yeah, right before this call actually, cuz I work from home. the baby was up giving me pouty eyes cuz I had to go down to, to work. So exactly how, how old is the. She's two.

Just over two. Yeah. She turned two in March.

[00:04:01] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. Yeah. My three-year-old, soon to be four year old son. will say, daddy, you going up to do, do just one call? Yep, just one call. Be right out, bud. Yeah. Well, I, I, appreciate you taking the time away from the family this morning, but also love, that, real estate and really passive income is really what we're talking about when we talk about multi-family and real.

The lifestyle that, that, that provides for both of us. has that all, was that always, like, was that part of you transitioning out of corporate America, just time for money exchange, or was it like this bigger, like, I don't want to work for the man. What, like what, what made the transition?

[00:04:37] Joe Sullivan: Yeah, so it, it really started with, just kind running from.

The corporate handcuffs. Yeah. I mean, I was really, it was really running from that job and just, just the idea because I was there again for 12 years. Right. And, and, you know, I be, I think frankly just became a number. and, it was very dispensable. I realized that, you know, after about halfway through real started to realize that I was just a number and Yeah.

and, and yeah, so I, so I, started looking for alternative sources of. Really was just kind of like a side hustle at the time when I was doing it. Yeah. and then, found, you know, found out quickly that I, that there was something there, to passive income. really started over, over consuming and educating myself with podcasts, YouTube, you, you know, you name it books.

Yeah. Yeah. and getting educated and, and landed on a multi-family. And the, I mean, you named it Cash Flow is the name of the game and the passive income, to kind of buy back, some of your. Yeah.

[00:05:33] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, yeah. I think that's, you're right. about the, the number feeling, I mean, whether the entrepreneurs listening today are involved in real estate or not.

some I'm sure are, but I had the same feeling, you know, of working for a big company. In fact, I was a top salesperson and I still felt like a number. Not that you like, expect special treatment or anything, but you're like, I mean, come on. there's a little bit of value here, but, but, it, it's just straight in and out, in and out, in and out.

They didn't. And so, what do you think for you gave you that like, I'm worth more or I'm worth passive income. Like there's a, there's an understanding changing time for money, right? And we obviously go back to Rich Dad, poor Dad, the basics of of time for money. But what gave you this gumption to say, I'm worth more, I'm worth actually building something that pays me whether I continue to do it or.

not

[00:06:24] Joe Sullivan: Yeah, I mean, for me it was, so the company I worked for was actually, it's a, it's a very, you know, over a billion dollars in annual revenue. but it was privately held. so the, the guy that, you know, owned it, he, he created it for nothing, you know? Yeah. very talented guy, but I was ma I was making him a lot of money.

I mean, candidly. So it was, it was like that, like why am I, , why am I doing this for him? Basically, , I'm working for him and creating his dream. I'm helping him, , create his dream. So it's like, what about my dreams? And, for my family. So for me it was a little bit of a light switch at one point.

It's like I'm working 60, 70, 80 hours sometimes, you know, crazy hours for somebody else, right? For their dream and for their family. It's like, why, why? Let's, let's pivot and, do this for my.

family

[00:07:10] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, I loved how you, how you made the transition too. You didn't, you didn't just jump off the cliff and, put everything in jeopardy necessarily.

Although I've had plenty of people on the podcast that are like, look, burn the ships jump. your story's more similar to mine where it's like, okay. although I did leave originally for, for business, but, I. I, I, the real estate game was like, look man, I just wanna make a ton of money and then super conservative, dump it all into real estate.

And so do you kind of, live along the same lines or maybe, maybe have, you know, the people that you're working with as there's like this build up your money, put it into real estate once you have the cash, you know, the cash flow of that passive income, then step away. Is that kinda what you did?

[00:07:51] Joe Sullivan: Yeah, definitely put as much as I could into real.

Even to the extreme of took, you know, taking out different type, you know, 401ks, things like that, right? I can go down a whole rabbit hole about that, but, but yeah, put, put as much as I could into real estate to, to create that passive income, to be able to replace or, I, I came not completely, wasn't completely able to replace my income, but at that point it was just a matter of if I'm gonna, bet on anybody, I'm gonna bet on myself at that point, when I got right, I got close enough.

and, and yeah, and the other thing I, I didn't mention earlier was I didn't wanna wake up someday and, and have my, like, my children asking me like, dad, why didn't you do this? Or, you know, I, I don't wanna have a regret. So, played, played out the w worst case scenario, in our head and my wife and I, we played out worst case scenario.

And, you know, at the end of the day, the worst case scenario really wasn't that bad. People have it a lot worse than, than what I consider would've been my worst case scenario, which would've. At the time probably selling the house and moving in with family, and then going back to corporate America. And that's right.

Again, not the end, you know, it's not the end of the world really. There's people having a lot worse than that.

[00:08:58] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. Do where do you think that you learned that? Or, or was that, is that something that a mentor told you? Or a, a book? cause I feel like what, what we can do in that moment is if we can minimize, you don't wanna be unrealistic about the worst case scenario, but if you can just make it real, just look at it for what it is, then, then like what you just did is you're like, well, What do I have to lose?

It? It makes the decision of jumping or taking a risk that much easier. How did you learn that?

[00:09:21] Joe Sullivan: Well, it wasn't from my family cuz they're very conservative. most of 'em are educators, teachers. Sure. you know, administrators. so that was not in their dna n a so it was, for me it was, it was podcast reading books.

and I think maybe even listening to it on bigger pockets, episode, I don't, I can't, I can't tell you like the moment in time or what I read that somebody Right. Kind of played out a similar scenario. Like what's the worst, what's the worst could happen? Yeah. You know, in my, I was at my mid thirties at the time, so a little bit later than a lot of people who do this, but, yeah, yeah, it was, it was really just get, getting educat.

Yeah,

[00:09:58] Chaz Wolfe: yeah. Along the same lines here, I wanna, I want to ask your opinion on this, cause I've said this, actually recently here, se several times to people in person and as well as on the show is that once, once I got the, the nut, you know, the monthly whatever I needed for my family, covered by passive income where I knew it was gonna come in no matter what.

It, it gave me another sense of freedom in my business. Even like I had already taken the risk to to, to get into business. I've got multiple businesses. It's like, you know, it's a risk festival over here. But what I have found is that with the real estate piece of, of the, of my plan at least, is that it's given me that much more, tolerance or maybe just excitement to play the game where I'm like, I don't, I don't need to worry about the nut.

We just, we just go hard in all these different areas. Because I'm not that concerned about it because of what we've done in real estate. What, what are your thoughts on that?

[00:10:49] Joe Sullivan: Yeah, I think, I think once you hit that, you know, I call level 1 financial freedom, right? it just, you know, kind of, it opens things up for you for sure.

So, I mean, there's different levels and I'm in a couple different masterminds and one of 'em talks about the different levels, and I'm still slightly over the level one, but, you know, pushing really hard to get to level two and, They talk about the freedom at each level, um Right. You know, peace of mind at each level.

[00:11:13] Chaz Wolfe: Can you, can you give us a little snapshot of what level 1, 2, 3 is?

[00:11:17] Joe Sullivan: Yeah. I mean, level one is just being a hundred percent financially free level. I mean, it's really simple. Level two is being two x financially free. So two times your, you're, monthly expenses. Yeah. And then level three is, you know, three times and so on and so

forth.

[00:11:32] Chaz Wolfe: So, makes sense. Makes sense. Yeah. that. I like that. I like that a lot. when you, when you got the nut covered, and you got, some savings going in for the next deal, right? And, for the next risk. I, I love that. That's, that's the game to play right there. How, how would you suggest someone listening right now who maybe isn't in real estate at all, maybe there even a successful business owner, maybe they're brand new, I don't know, but they're not in real estate.

What's their first step today to get to level one with real?

[00:12:04] Joe Sullivan: My first step, and this is what I did, you know, first, I mean, first small step is get educated, but really to take action. I know that's maybe contrary to what some people say, but I mean, my, my first action was buying a duplex. So it wasn't massive.

Like, you're gonna lose, you're gonna lose everything. It's just Right. Take some type of action, get in the game. if that, if that means you're investing passively with someone, Sure. Or you're buying a single family, but just get in the game and, and get in because once you get in the game, you surround yours, you inevitably surround yourself with people in the game who are doing it at a higher level.

That's right. and it's just a, it's just a domino effect from there. So, so my suggestion would be, take action. Not, not, not ed, not uneducated action, but, but take.

[00:12:47] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, I love the, the little caveat there of the very first thing is education podcast books, like you said, but don't, don't live in that frame too long.

You can still continue that frame, but you don't wanna stay there only without the action. I love, I dunno if you follow Alex Kamozi, but he talks about learning by doing quite a bit. and so, I mean that's exactly what you just said, like get in the game, figure it out because cuz you don't really know until you're playing around and you go.

And then on top of that, you get in there and you learn a duplex and you're like, okay, well this is fun, but I don't really like make gobs of money from this, so why don't I go take these same skill sets that I've now learned and apply them to to something

[00:13:25] Joe Sullivan: bigger. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Not only do you not make gobs of money, you make very little money duplex.

[00:13:31] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. But at the same time too, you're not exchanging that much risk, like you said, like go buy something. You know, not very risky. what you're doing is learning the game. Like you said, you're just getting in, learning it, getting around other people. I think that's just incredible advice. So, even for somebody who maybe could go buy a duplex cash, like go, okay, fine, just go do it.

Learn the game, get in, right. That's right. Yep, for sure. Tell us, I've, I've kind of already pinpointed you a little bit here on, on a good decision, but I want you to tell me if you can, looking back at your history, A good decision that you made that was like, oh, that, that's one right here. Just is just the crux of all of my success, or at least a good majority of it.

What, what would that one thing be that you would just do over and over and over again?

[00:14:08] Joe Sullivan: it was joining a mastermind or, educational group, A mul For me it was multi-family cuz that's, that was the asset class in the route I was going. That's right. I invested in, it's, you know, technically it's an educational group, but there's also a ton of masterminding that goes on, goes on in there.

And everything from there kind of started to, like I said earlier, domino effect. That was the, yeah, that was the, that was the first step for sure.

[00:14:32] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. And, and I've had obviously, you know, hundreds of guests at this point and many of them have said this exact answer. I'm curious from your perspective, because even before we hit the record button, we were just kind of chatting back and forth about different things you got going on, different things I got going on, and you said, Hey, also too, let me know about your mastermind.

Which is obviously, like I've had some guests join, some guests not, it's not a big deal one way or the other. there's plenty to choose from my whole point through the education of the podcast is get somewhere, meet somebody somewhere and get yourself leveled up as far as your network goes, which you played right into that.

So it's great. So, okay. You're, you're saying go get a mastermind, go get this education. But for the guy that's listening right now who has never done. Help. Help him understand the value because I can tell you firsthand, before I understood I didn't understand. That sounds really like, okay, obviously, but there's just like this veil that comes back and you're like, whoa, this is like a whole nother world.

Describe.

[00:15:27] Joe Sullivan: Yeah, I mean, the, first time I actually heard the word mastermind from, people, that , were doing this,, I gave massive eye rolls. I was like, , , you guys are arrogant and, , , like, oh, really? What? , what's, what does that even mean? So I hear you.

So somebody, masterminding is just surrounding yourself with , like-minded people. And frankly, my goal is always to surround myself with people who are doing at a higher level than. I wanna be the dumbest person in the room. And if in these groups, most of these groups, you'll be able to, you'll be able to accomplish that.

Especially, if you're a newbie,you'll get educated, but you also just be around people who , are crushing it and Yeah. and it, it really pushes you. I would say it's not necessarily competitive, but you know, you, you see somebody have success and it's like success leaves clues.

So like, what are, how are they? You know, how are they doing? How, how did, for me at the time, it was like, how did that person buy 150 unit apartment complex? Right? Like, I want to be, I want to be in their, you know, in their proximity. Yes, sir. so, you know, just get in the room and and you know, it's just, Follow their lead essentially.

[00:16:28] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. I, I like how, you've described it's not necessarily a competition, but rather like a transfer of courage, you know? I like that. Did you get into the room, like you said and you're like, oh man, if Joe can do it, well, surely I could do it. I like Joe, Joe seems cool, but like, Joe puts his pants on like I do, Chaz puts his pants on like I do.

Like there's nothing special about you or me other than maybe my beard. No, I'm just kidding. You know, the, the, the reality here is that anybody can do it. And so when you step into a room of people that are at a high level, I think it's twofold what you just said. Like, number one, I can learn from this person.

Number two is you realize if he can do it, I can do it. And that's the transfer of

[00:17:08] Joe Sullivan: courage. Would you. Yeah, tra that's a great, great phrase there. Like, yeah, I, I, I say that all the time cuz I, you know, I, I'm around people who are doing, you know, incredible things, but you know, when you, you get to know 'em, you're like, well, they're just, they're not much different than me.

Or, or maybe they started two years before I did. It's like they're further down. Oh wow. They're doing that. Like, okay, I'm just, it's okay. I'm happy for them, but yep, I'm gonna do that someday, or, or,

[00:17:37] Chaz Wolfe: That's right. That's right. Yeah. I've got, one of my mastermind members, he said this when he first joined too.

He obviously stayed in the lane, but I was just asking for some opinions the other day, just about the value of the group and stuff, and, and he said, look, man, I had, I knew just by meeting you and a few of the other guys that I was gonna have to show up each time, leveled up regardless of any information that I learned, regardless of any relationship that I was even building.

I just knew I was showing up to a room of players that I had to just level up each time because I knew that they were leveling up each time. And it's like that even in itself, this energy, we don't, we don't even say anything. Just know that I'm getting my stuff done. You're getting your stuff done. We're going to the next level, man, you don't wanna get left behind in that, that that's the competition or the, like the, the rallying spirit that you're talking about, right?

[00:18:23] Joe Sullivan: That's right. Yeah. I love that.

[00:18:26] Chaz Wolfe: It's good energy, man. what about a bad decision? Something that, that you did that we can, we can stay

[00:18:30] Joe Sullivan: far, far away from? Yeah, so after I had, started my journey in multi-family, I had already acquired a couple, you know, I think a 40 unit in the 60 unit. property, I had, I kind of dipped my toes back into a single family.

Mm. with a friend and business partner that we'd already done a deal with. And, a lot of my mentors had told me to know, stay away from the smaller stuff and, I didn't. And, that deal has been an, frankly, there's been a nightmare. mostly cuz of time. You know, we went over budget that wasn't as, as big of a deal cuz real estate over time.

You can kind of weather the storm there, but it was more about the time, the, the time it took me to acquire and, and, and rehab and do the work with the partner. I could have bought, I don't know how many apartment complexes at the same time and, you know, made X amount of money, more money. So, I got shiny objects in 'em.

I think I mentioned that earlier. And and that was a mistake for sure.

[00:19:26] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, and I think that actually it's interesting because real estate itself can be potentially the same thing. For an entrepreneur. So an entrepreneur listening today, and they've got a business in the trades or technology or marketing, whatever, and they know that assets, passive income, all this stuff, cashflow that we're talking about is like, ooh, yes, yes.

But their biggest asset is their business. And really what they should do is take their money and probably invest it with guys like you, un unless they're building their own team or they've, they've, they've got these systems kind of in place. The value of what we're talking about that everybody should be doing could be potentially the same shiny abject syndrome.

Would you agree with that?

[00:20:08] Joe Sullivan: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Just, you know, stay in your lane. You know, for me it's stay in my lane, stay focused on, on my criteria and, I mean, I get, I get pitch deals all the time and different asset classes and it's just right. you know, if I, if I wanna invest passively, I'll do that, but, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna jump over to self storage and try to, Expert in self storage right now,

[00:20:28] Chaz Wolfe: right?

Yeah. Yeah. I think even for myself, for somebody who has run multiple businesses and invested in real estate, I'm, I'm even myself learning that's a good deal, but I'm calculating, like you said, the time that it would take and I'm like passing on deals or looking more at the deals where I can just put in money and go, Hmm, that, that actually seems a little bit more in my lane.

Because although I can do the deal, and I love finding the deal and negotiating the deal, I love all the little pieces, man. Is that really where I should, you know, live day in and day out? Probably not. You know what I mean? Right. All right, so, so stay away from shiny things. How do you, how do you, how do you really do that?

Because Joe, you and I both know that opportunities come across every single day. Yeah. And. It's hard to say. No, it's hard to actually stay away from the shiny, but like, like are you building a resistance? Like what do you do?

[00:21:26] Joe Sullivan: yeah. I mean, I don't have like a secret recipe. I have a cr, I have a criteria Okay.

That I look for in deals. And, if it's outside that criteria, it's just, it's a no. So, yeah. is, like I said, I, I obviously didn't follow that early, earlier on, but, yeah, I mean, I have my. My buy, I call it BuyRight criteria. And, if it's, if it doesn't fit in that, in that box, then, then it's a no. So, yeah, but I think, I think most entrepreneurs are wired that way to, to get distracted.

So, you know, you have to have the discipline. Yeah, yeah,

[00:21:59] Chaz Wolfe: yeah. It's a muscle. you know, when you say no, it feels odd at first, and then it feels good afterwards. Would you agree?

[00:22:06] Joe Sullivan: Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, because you know, you'll see somebody. Doing the, you know, similar things and, and you know, jumping asset classes or something like that.

Right. And you just, you just know that it's, it's slowing them down from, from what they were great at. Yeah,

[00:22:20] Chaz Wolfe: yeah, exactly. Good stuff, man. What, you said kind of like this, this buy right box or, or a buy box of sorts. Is there anything else that you have when a decision comes across your desk where you're like, okay, this is the, this is the formula that I follow to try to make a good decision?

And this doesn't have to be about buying real estate necessarily, but just

[00:22:36] Joe Sullivan: decisions in. Well, so I, I always try to take a long-term view of, of everything. So I plan on living for a very long time and being around for my, my children, grandchildren, and great, you know, great-grandchildren. So anything I do, you know, even if it's, you know, eat, eating, exercising, those types of things, I, I, I just look at the long term.

Long-term view. So, buying assets is the same way. I wanna hold them for as long as possible. Yeah. That's my, it's my criteria. So I don't, I, I don't buy older assets because eventually they're gonna deteriorate. Right. yeah. For me it's just, you know, long-term vision. Love that. Love

[00:23:14] Chaz Wolfe: that. again, a little bit of that discipline, right.

Of. Looking at something maybe even a little bit more thoroughly than, than, than you're used to, or maybe just a different consideration of the future, so that way you can make a decision today that maybe isn't as easy or maybe as popular.

[00:23:29] Joe Sullivan: Yeah. Well, and some, and sometimes it, for, for me it's about partnerships too because, you know, I have a lot of business partners, you know, naturally in real estate, investors and, and, and gp, you know, cogs and deals.

yeah. And if they don't have the same vision, the long term hold vision that I do, It's, it's kind of an easy decision. So if they wanna, if they wanna flip out of deals and be more transactional, then, it's not my business model. Right. so I look at a deal that way and I look at the people I'm partnering with in the same, same light.

[00:23:58] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. Understood. Do you think that that same application, I mean, I, I know it does apply to business, but from your perspective, you know, an entrepreneur that's not in real estate right now, how, how do they take this discipline and put it into.

[00:24:14] Joe Sullivan: Not in real estate. Yeah. I mean, I think it's the same thing. people, you, even people you hang out with, like, you know, your friends, if, if they're not aligned with your core values right.

And you know, similar things, then you know, you know, I, I, I say this and I don't mean harshly, but firing your family or your friends. I talk to my wife about this all the time. I don't mean literally like cutting them outta your life. Sometimes you just spend less time with them because they don't, you know, they want to party and things like that.

And, and you're more about focused on eating healthy, living a long life, spending time with your kids, those types of things. And if they, if they don't, if they aren't, then, you know, I just, naturally, over time for me, I just spend less time with them. Yeah.

[00:24:57] Chaz Wolfe: Yep. Which I think is a natural progression.

but I think people feel bad for it, you know? Sure. we have this kind of like quote unquote obligation, you know, to family, friends, people who we grew up with, whatever it is. and the reality of it is it has to be a mutually benefiting situation. otherwise why? Right. That's right. What I'm picking up mostly, I don't wanna just point this out to the listener, is that everything that you've done or that you're currently doing is just super.

From the time that you spend with people to the buy box of what kind of property you're buying to, how you're making dec disciplined decisions for the long term of future generations. It's just really, really intentional. You've, you've just taken the time to like plan out your answer, not necessarily in a slow format, but in a format to where when you get to that decision, it's.

It's easier for you to make the right decision because you've already decided ahead of time, this is how we do things, or this is what's valuable to me, or here's how I'm gonna spend my time, family, or whatever. Would you agree with that? I,

[00:25:52] Joe Sullivan: I, yes, completely. I have my, you know, my wife and I have mapped out our 10 year vision, five year vision for our family and our life, and our businesses a big part of that.

So we just reverse engineer everything, you know, backwards, down to three years, one. Even to month and week and day, you know, I time box for my day. So everything, everything that I do is intentional, like you said. And it, you know, it really came from a mentor of mine, a few years ago when I joined that group.

I mentioned the educational group. Yeah, yeah. I, you know, I've, I've seen how, what he's done with his family and his life and what he's built. Yeah. And, and really just try to soak up as much as possible from. And, I'm, you know, I'm really kind of, copying what he's done candidly. Yeah. And, why not?

I, yeah, I love it. So it's, so just try to, try to use, you know, live by your core values and, and think, think long term.

[00:26:43] Chaz Wolfe: Love it. Love it. Let's go to the speed round here. Joe. What would you say or regarding KPIs? I kinda like to say it like this. If you can only pick one thing to track inside your business, what would that one

[00:26:53] Joe Sullivan: thing be?

For me, it's gonna be retention. you know, customer retention typ, more specifically, residents like renewals for leases. okay. That saves us money. And, you know, in, in a lot of cases the last couple years it's been, in increases in, you know, in the, in the rent too. So, yeah. Makes us more money and saves us money all at the same time.

[00:27:14] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And, and for maybe those that aren't listening, it's not just like you, you wrangle people into a contract, you actually have to add value because there's lots of places they can, they can live. And, especially in the,nice classes that you're purchasing in, there's a lot of amenities and a lot of things that those people are looking for.

of course you gotta keep the, keep the property in tiptop state, right.

[00:27:35] Joe Sullivan: Yeah, for for sure. Yeah. I mean, a lot of times we'll offer, amenities package. you know, like a new, a new lighting package, or offer to clean their carpet or something like that for, right, for, a, a lease renewal. just we have various packages we offer for the properties.

[00:27:50] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, yeah, yeah. really what it, what it boils down to is experience, which I, which transcends any business, or any industry. And, the retention in any business is never gonna be there if there's no experience. Right?

[00:28:01] Joe Sullivan: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I love it.

[00:28:04] Chaz Wolfe: Okay. What, you've mentioned, a handful of times now education platforms or, or sorry, podcast books.

What would be, a good recommendation for you if somebody wants to, grow their business and or maybe get started in real estate?

[00:28:17] Joe Sullivan: I think for, so for me, the one that. Really used a lot in the last year, I'd say is, who not how by Dan Sullivan. I'm sure you hear that a lot. But yeah, it's good.

Really has helped me scale. you know, trying to find, you know, how, how to do it is, is one thing, but, you know, find the who. Yeah. and to help you get to where you want to go. So that, that's, that's really changed my, my business in the last 12 months.

[00:28:42] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. And, and simply just from growing, your team or leaning on the people that you have already, give us a little bit more there.

[00:28:49] Joe Sullivan: I think more specifically for me, like to get really nuanced is, finding people to help raise capital. Sure. So yeah, wanna buy a larger per, right. You wanna buy a larger, you know, for my example, we wanna borrow a larger apartment complex. you need more capital and, you know that, that there's a finite, finite amount of capital that I.

You know, it runs out. So, find the who that has the capital or who can source the capital.

[00:29:15] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, yeah. Understood. One thing I love from that book, is that it called me out for the procrastinator that I am, except for that I'm not a procrastinator. I'm a doer. Very much similar to you, where it's like, look, man, just, just hit the, hit the box list.

Like, just start checking, you know, just do, do, do. Right. but inside of that, we get busy. We get busy with a long list and things get pushed down. And when I read in that book that the, the things that get pushed down repeatedly, over and over means that you're procrastinating. And I'm like, no, I'm not procrastinating.

It's just further down a list regardless of how you look at it. It's an indicator that you need a who. Yeah. That's what it is. that's right. And it's like, man, because I, because it's not like I have a problem eating the frog. Right. There's some people that just need to eat the frog and get started and not procrastinate.

Like, I eat like four frogs at a time. Like let's go what the, the list gets long, man. And that's just a really big indicator at this point in my life where I'm like, ah, time for another who.

[00:30:10] Joe Sullivan: Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Yeah, for sure.

, all right. So that was a great, recommendation on, the book for sure. One of my favorites. what about, your family, we've talked about this a little bit, as far as like cash flow and providing lifestyle, that type of a thing, but how have you been able to obsess over your family and the business at the same time?

[00:30:29] Chaz Wolfe: Cause I'm a, I'm a fan. obsession, not balance. I don't believe in balance. I believe in the things that make us success successful in business are the same things that make us successful in our family, which is obsession. How, how, how do you do 'em both at the same time?

[00:30:44] Joe Sullivan: This, I struggle with this a lot, because, you know, just working.

Crazy amount of hours, but, I mean, i I time block, so we have a shared, my wife and I have a shared calendar and I know when, you know, I have four kids, three of 'em are in sports and activities, and I know when they're doing a sporting event, I even coach some of their, some of their teams. and I time block and, I just have some non-negotiables.

you know, when they have, when they have events on the weekends, I don't travel. Events. and so my wife and I, we meet every week. We go over our week to come. We, we do like a date night, or coffee or something. Yeah. and, we meet and we go over a week and, and we, we time block our week out.

We talk about what's going on. and, and yeah. So it's, it's just really for us, it's just putting it on the calendar and, and then just not making exceptions to, to certain. Yeah,

[00:31:34] Chaz Wolfe: I love that. Which is obsession, right? Like if, if, if you were gonna put a podcast on your calendar, you, you would show up un unless something crazy happened, right?

Same thing with your family, right? That's right. Yep. Yeah. Is that equalization of priority, right? Like, I did that for a long time. I said that my family was important, but it was, it was actually lower on the priority. And, and I would, I would sabotage those moments. I was even good at time. But I would fill it with other things that I like, oh, but I gotta do this, but oh, I gotta do this.

And I still do it sometimes to this day. But, the reality of it is, is that we're always trying to like, you know, go back and forth, family and business, it kinda like all flows together, really,

[00:32:14] Joe Sullivan: you know? Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think creating some non-negotiables is, is really important. At least that's, that helped me a lot.

Like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna miss a game for, for a, an event, type of thing. Yeah. everybody's got their own, whatever, whatever that is, but just creating those, that you, you're not gonna, you're not gonna break the rule for, right. I'm not gonna go watch a, a basketball game with my buddies, you know, and skip my daughter's, right.

Volleyball game.

[00:32:42] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I, it's, it was super relevant, what you're saying from just a conversation I was having yesterday with one of our mastermind members. We've got an an in-person event coming up this coming weekend, and, I've been looking forward to getting some time with this guy and he's got a great business and, and we just super like-minded and, and he's becoming, one of my close friends.

But, he texted me yesterday and was like, man, I've been trying to play the puzzle game. And, and, he's got a daughter that's going to prom. His son's in a baseball tournament that just popped up cuz they won last weekend. And this other thing, I can't even remember what it was. And he was like, dude, I've, I've sliced the pie every which way I know how and I can't come.

I'm like, you know what, I'm bummed. But bro, it's your family. Like, it's your f like you're doing the right thing. And, and not that he was asking for my permission at all, but the encouragement. Like, hey, that's the right choice, number one. But then number two, we're gonna have a lot of time to talk business.

Like don't worry, it's all, you know. Right. Sometimes guys, especially high performers, need to hear that and they need to hear that like, you did the right thing. Go do the family thing. we'll have plenty of time to mastermind. That's right. All right. Last question here for you. Da Joe, I got, I got a question around, your history.

Maybe lemme say it like, If you had an opportunity to whisper in the younger Joe's ear, what would you say?

[00:34:03] Joe Sullivan: I guess if it was, like in my twenties, I would say, go for it. Just go for it. Earlier I waited, I waited till I was in my mid thirties. a lot of it was because of. you know, loving family, but just risk was not something that, people in my family were akin to. And right. So it just took me a long time.

So, I would whisper to, to, you know, go for it. Invest earlier, you know, something of that effect.

[00:34:31] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, yeah. Especially that last phrase there, that invest earlier. I think that, you know, any, any 80 year old or or 50 year old for that matter looks back and was like, oh man, if I had. Invested earlier.

[00:34:43] Joe Sullivan: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Or tr or you know, I would also tell 'em to tell myself to travel a little more early on.

[00:34:50] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. Yeah. A little harder with kids. But, yeah, you know, the, the, the fun part is which, you know, Julie and I have adopted this, where you think about all the work and the, and the debris that comes with the traveling with kids.

And, and you kinda just gotta like, put that, put that behind you and go, you know what? We're gonna have an absolute blast. We're gonna live life in a different area for a little. And, kind of, kind of get past all the, the difficulty of it, but yeah, you. Joe, how can we connect with you? Maybe the listener is like, ah, this is my dude.

I want to invest, or I wanna learn more about real estate. I believe that you even, are a real estate coach and you offer services around that. So maybe if someone wants to connect with you in that way, how can we find you? How can we connect?

[00:35:30] Joe Sullivan: Yeah, I do. I have a website. It's joey dts.com. you can find me there or email me at joe joey dts dot.

And I'm on all, I'm on Facebook and Instagram and LinkedIn as well. So you can find me any of those places.

[00:35:46] Chaz Wolfe: Awesome man. Well, we appreciate the opportunity not only for you just to download some just incredible, pieces of your story, but just being honest and helping us kind of work through a few things here this morning.

blessings on your family and all your properties, all the things that you got going on in 2023. And we appreciate you being

[00:36:00] Joe Sullivan: here, Joe. Yeah, thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

In this episode of Gathering The Kings Podcast, Chaz Wolfe sits down with Joe Sullivan, a multifamily real estate investor and entrepreneur who has made it his mission to take charge of his own destiny. Having started investing in real estate just four years ago with duplexes in KC, Joe has since acquired 1400 units across several midwestern states. He explains the levels of financial freedom and the importance of avoiding shiny object syndrome, highlighting how he lives his life with intention and purpose, being very intentional with his time, energy, and attention. Throughout the episode, Joe shares valuable insights and tips on how to get started in real estate, the importance of education, and how to achieve success. He also talks about the transfer of courage, self-management in multifamily, and the benefits of goal-setting. Whether you're a seasoned investor or just getting started in the industry, there's something for everyone in this episode. Listen in now to gain valuable insights and take simple actions towards building your wealth through real estate investing.

Joe Sullivan:

Website: https://joeydts.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joeydts

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