466 | What Major Banks Are Hiding About Crypto

Jul 8

[00:00:00] Chaz Wolfe: What's up everybody. Welcome to gathering the King's podcast. I'm your host, Chas Wolf. I'm a serial entrepreneur across franchising, construction, real estate, and online education. My mission in this show is to transfer courage to you, our listeners by showing you and sharing with you real and raw stories of successful entrepreneurs, seven, eight, even nine bigger business owners.
[00:00:22] Chaz Wolfe: Today, we've got Professor Tanya M. Evans on the stage. She's a law professor at Penn State. She wrote Digital Money Demystified and she hosts the Tech Intersect podcast. She's a former pro tennis player and now a crypto expert. Professor Tanya also speaks at huge events like IBM Cloud Forum and South by Southwest.
[00:00:42] Chaz Wolfe: In this episode, you will learn three things. One, what the big banks don't want you to know about cryptocurrency.
[00:00:48] Prof Tonya Evans: They are trying to get their market share dominance saying don't trust yourself. Two, Professor Evans debunks the top three crypto myths. Coin first came on the scene with a gangster lean on January 3rd, 2009.
[00:01:03] Prof Tonya Evans: And that's a fad. It's literally the longest fad and scam I've ever seen in the history of fads and scams. And number three, how to actually make money with
[00:01:10] Chaz Wolfe: crypto.
[00:01:11] Prof Tonya Evans: How do I set myself up to decrease the amount of time? It takes me to make up for lost time when I was spending a lot of money as a high income earner.
[00:01:19] Prof Tonya Evans: Month to month looking good, making all the mistakes.
[00:01:22] Chaz Wolfe: We'll also hear how professor Tanya leverages the mastermind principle to succeed in the crypto world. If you want to learn how to navigate the complex world of cryptocurrency, you're in the right place. Stick around. This is one episode you won't want to miss.
[00:01:36] Chaz Wolfe: All right. Prof T there she is. Miss Tanya. How we doing? Welcome to the King stage. Thanks for being here.
[00:01:42] Prof Tonya Evans: Thank you. I'm so excited to connect and Chaz, I love what you're doing and I've been looking forward to this convo. So I look forward to helping a lot of people.
[00:01:52] Chaz Wolfe: We'll see those. Those are kind words, but,~ uh,~ I'm glad you ended it with helping,~ uh,~ other people rather than just being here for me. Cause man, I actually have the honor of, of hosting you here today. And so, wow. ~Uh, ~if they didn't hear enough in that intro about all the things that you've got your hand to, we are going to dive even further.
[00:02:08] Chaz Wolfe: Further. ~Um, ~I love, I love your, there's just this actual balance that I, I've already experienced with you. And just the few minutes we've been talking, you have this creative, casual humor, and then like, I can totally tell you're about your business and you are a master of, you've got all kinds of letters before your name.
[00:02:25] Chaz Wolfe: ~Uh, ~I'm, I'm not even sure if I'm qualified to be here. ~Um, ~but, but at the same time,~ um,~ I, you allowed me to call you prof T. So I'm just like, wow, this is, I feel right at home at the same time. I just feel like there's so much knowledge that,~ uh,~ I need to extract from your super smart brain and help all of these listeners.
[00:02:41] Chaz Wolfe: We're going to talk,~ uh,~ not only just about your, your, your history. So I want to get, I want to dive into that, but we're going to talk,~ uh,~ you know, a bunch of crypto here as well. So, ~uh, ~which is so it's again, it's like this interesting dynamic that I'm already feeling with you.
[00:02:51] Chaz Wolfe: It's like, you know, you've got,~ um,~ this, this background,~ uh, Uh, ~we're, we're, I'm gonna ask you some questions here in a second about law and very intense things that you're still doing today, but yet you're bringing knowledge and awareness to,~ um,~ you know, we, we kind of jokingly shorten it as crypto, but it's, it's a web three application and, and how companies should actually be,~ uh,~ looking and taking this technology very seriously.
[00:03:11] Chaz Wolfe: And so we're going to get to all that, but. Tell me, tell me about your backdrop. So you, you've spent time in, in law. You've, you've been a student of this. You've now you're, you're a professor. Now you've seen both sides of the, of the classroom, if you will. Give us a little bit of your backdrop.
[00:03:24] Prof Tonya Evans: So I graduated from law school in 98. I went to Howard University School of Laws, the editor in chief of my law journal. I started clerking in the third circuit and then I, you know, I took a very traditional path and no, it's difficult to see. ~Um, ~Early on. So I started a big law, one firm, two firms in Philadelphia.
[00:03:43] Prof Tonya Evans: My mother is a retired patent attorney. So after I kind of ran from big law, kind of kicking and screaming, it's like you do all of the things and kind of color inside the lines and check the right boxes and do all the right things. And you have every right to be in this space. But the question is whether you,~ um,~ you know, whether they deserve you.
[00:04:01] Prof Tonya Evans: Quite frankly. ~Um, ~and and you mentioned this of all of the other aspects of my life and my creativity. I'm a lifelong learner. I really am a writer, speaker and teacher. And that's not really the right energy to bring into big law, right? Like think paper chase, think, you know, strike a suits, excuse me. ~Um, ~and you get the idea of what a day in the life is like.
[00:04:22] Prof Tonya Evans: My father is a retired surgeon. He,~ um,~ Is a former state representative and one of the first,~ uh,~ black representatives in Maine, and he's now running for state Senate. So we all, you know, we're multi hyphenates for sure. ~Um, ~my mom is now baking cookies, but I made her sell them because I'm an entrepreneur.
[00:04:36] Prof Tonya Evans: It's very, I was like, we're gonna go through all this during Christmas time. We don't have to like,~ uh,~ make more money. ~Um, ~and so all of those things, I'm an only child. And,~ um,~ and so very close to my parents as well. But they just gave me a lot of room to run to again, be intellectually curious. ~Um, ~I'm a non technologist in terms of my,~ uh,~ my background and expertise.
[00:04:57] Prof Tonya Evans: So I really had to find my way like everybody else to figure out what this intersection of,~ uh,~ Finance and technology means in terms of,~ um,~ technological innovation. So that's been fun after practicing for 10 years, then I've been teaching now. I'm a full tenured professor.~ Uh,~ co hire appointment,~ uh,~ with data sciences.
[00:05:16] Prof Tonya Evans: So that was later in life. Once I realized I needed to take a deep dive into something that I did not understand, I didn't exactly want to understand, but I wanted my students to have a better appreciation for, so they would be more conversant and show up for a web three reality. So that's really what pushed him, prompted me to take a deep dive in my existing area of expertise.
[00:05:38] Prof Tonya Evans: I'm an intellectual property lawyer by training. So all the digital stuff resonates with me. So I wanted to figure out how the tech technology was changing that. So that's, that's, that's my kind of origin story.
[00:05:48] Chaz Wolfe: Business owner listening right now. They they've, you know, they've heard of maybe a crypto or a specific, you know, they've heard, you know, ~um, ~theorem or, you know, any, any of this specific coins there, there may be new to you saying web, you know, web three, or this, this technology,~ uh,~ blockchain and understanding the transaction of it or the re the record of, or encrypting of things.
[00:06:10] Chaz Wolfe: What, what is, what should they know about it? Not just being. You know, Bitcoin,~ um,~ and an exchange of, of currency, but, but the technology behind it, what, what's like a 32nd intro to that?
[00:06:23] Prof Tonya Evans: When you think of cryptocurrency, the crypto part really comes from cryptography. ~Um, ~you have a cryptic nature about it that seems nefarious, but cryptography or,~ um,~ secreting messaging to get from point A to point B. The was very important at times of war is very important when you're doing exchanges with other tribes.
[00:06:41] Prof Tonya Evans: I mean, this has been around for millennia in different forms or fashions. And now we have a digital means of using cryptographically secured messaging with a heavy, but basically just means. I'm going to encrypt it in one way, and there will only be one unique key to decrypt the information so that you can protect it.
[00:07:02] Prof Tonya Evans: Crypto really is about using the same peer to peer technology we used to use for MP3s and MP4s,~ um,~ as an intellectual property lawyer. I'm using,~ um,~ Air quotes, air signs to say,~ um,~ that a lot of that was,~ uh,~ copyright infringement, but it's okay. We're not here to talk about that, but it's not great in value when you're using the same technology to exchange value.
[00:07:20] Prof Tonya Evans: If I can have a perfect digital,~ um,~ copy of a, of a Bitcoin and send it to a thousand people. That's not gonna work for great for money, even though people were super excited with Napster and Grokster and LimeWire and all of those back in the day. But considering using that not just for messaging,~ um,~ of media, but now we use it for messaging of value and the underlying technology that tracks each value and transaction is actually a blockchain.
[00:07:46] Prof Tonya Evans: It's a digital record or digital ledger. It's as simple as that. And every time someone comes and starts to. Force people to look under the hood and use a whole lot of jargon. You instantly lose people. We are already doing this. Now, most of our money is digital, very little. The money that we exchange is in physical form.
[00:08:05] Prof Tonya Evans: It's dirty. It's expensive. ~Um, ~it's limiting. ~Uh, ~I love my wires. I love my direct deposits. I love not, I don't really love Zelle, but let's just use it as simple. We've got the cash apps. We've got the memos, right? With so many forms of ones and zeros moving. Digitally value from one digital record to another.
[00:08:22] Prof Tonya Evans: This is the next iteration of that. Will it replace it for all time? I don't know, but it's one additional opportunity to move money that isn't created by,~ um,~ a government and isn't controlled by a single entity. And so finally, to your point about web three, which brings it all together, blockchain technology.
[00:08:41] Prof Tonya Evans: Financial technologies are one part of a major shift that we are calling Web three, where there are more and more decentralized and peer to peer ways to do more things. We have stored data with a few giants that rival or exceed in terms of values. A lot of nations. We, you know, for the Transcribed by https: otter.
[00:09:03] Prof Tonya Evans: ai The,~ uh,~ the price of doing business and having an open internet early on was that we learned a lot of things that were great and a lot of things not so great. So Web three is our opportunity,~ um,~ final point to do that differently. And that's why learning this and other things, AI,~ um,~ internet of things, VR,~ uh,~ and, and the like are really, really critically important.
[00:09:23] Prof Tonya Evans: I know it's a long, it's a lot in one, but I wanted to show kind of the breadth of the industry and this being an important part, but certainly not the only part.
[00:09:31] Chaz Wolfe: No, I, I appreciate the extent of all of that. What would you say from like your,~ uh,~ law background that someone should be,~ um,~ maybe not hesitant or maybe prudent about when they're looking into using, whether it be crypto,~ uh,~ as an investor or using it in their business, even web three, as it's coming, what are the things that we should be prudent about?
[00:09:51] Prof Tonya Evans: Well, on one hand, you know, we're no longer in the information age because we have no shortage of information. The issue at this point is how, how do you right size the information? How do you separate fact from fiction? How do you find trusted sources and resources so that you can make educated decisions?
[00:10:08] Prof Tonya Evans: So the first, and it doesn't have to cost a lot of money to do that, but. There's it's very costly. If you do this incorrectly, a lot of people got their shirt handed to them. ~Um, ~in the run up when you saw like crypto dot com stadium and all the celebrities and Tom Brady's of the world were hawking it.
[00:10:26] Prof Tonya Evans: They didn't have a full appreciation for how people could get wrecked. They never appreciation for volatility. We had bad actors in the space. Hashtag Sam Bankman freed. Enjoy your time in jail, right? ~Um, ~even though the crypto ecosystem is a pretty bad place to do. To engage in criminal activity because the records are public facing.
[00:10:44] Prof Tonya Evans: In fact, the department of justice uses blockchain forensics regularly. We don't see this all the time on the headlines. We only see when it goes badly, but they are recovering millions and millions in assets because it's just follow the money. It's literally public facing. It's not anonymous, except for a few anonymous coins like Monero,~ um,~ the Bitcoins and Ethereums of the world and thousands of other coins and tokens are public facing.
[00:11:09] Prof Tonya Evans: So the critical first step for business owners, even if you don't become an investor, How can you leverage this technology? How can you leverage a first mover advantage in order to deliver your services or your products or change or recalibrate your products? Will you incorporate artificial intelligence?
[00:11:28] Prof Tonya Evans: ~Um, ~a project that I'm working on is decentralized artificial intelligence. Because if we're just replicating the same centralized system, you know, the open a models, I'm not disparaging any model in particular, but all of the biggies. are going to have their own central repository to have their own playground and they want you to stay in it.
[00:11:49] Prof Tonya Evans: Decentralized technology will allow us to leverage these large language models, but do it outside of big tech unless we opt in. That's a game changer. ~Um, ~and when you think about digital products and services, you have to have some liquid way of paying that isn't behold into a particular border or boundary.
[00:12:07] Prof Tonya Evans: We're talking about outer space. This is not tin oil hack stuff like this is literally yesterday. So that is likely going to be cryptocurrency. We have to learn how to integrate that into our, in our products, our services,~ um,~ and our business models, because we're moving from hyper competition to collaborative effort and also a decentralized space,~ uh,~ that was promised with web 2.
[00:12:28] Prof Tonya Evans: 0, but never delivered. ~Um, ~and so some of those are some of the things I would think of again, even if you never invest, I hope that eventually you'll learn enough and you'll be comfortable to have a part of an overall portfolio strategy, but But if you do nothing else, figuring out how your business is being disrupted and the potential opportunities will still allow you at this moment in time to be a first mover, but first mover advantage,~ um,~ is fleeting.
[00:12:49] Prof Tonya Evans: So you need to start now. You start slowly, but start.
[00:12:55] Chaz Wolfe: You said it's a ledger, right? Public facing, you can see the transactions and that might've just like glossed right over,~ uh,~ someone listening that one ability to, to record something is in every single industry. like multiple layers deep. And so what percentage do you think that this has begun to shift how we do life? This has been not happening for just a year or two, this has been happening for a while, but, but we're really not, you know, at mass scale, what, what percentage would you put on this?
[00:13:31] Prof Tonya Evans: It's interesting. I'll speak in sports analogies in some sense, I feel like we're, we might be like in the, we're not warming up. It's not even the first inning, you know, let's talk, you know, baseball now, like we're really in the bottom of the second, right? We haven't, we're certainly far away from the seventh inning stretch.
[00:13:49] Prof Tonya Evans: But we, this train has left the station. Bitcoin first came on the scene with a gangster lean on January 3rd, 2009. If that's a fad, it's literally the longest fad and scam I've ever seen in the history of fads and scams. We had,~ uh,~ for example, the first regulated, fully regulated kind of package or wrapper or product with 11 exchange traded spot, Bitcoin.
[00:14:11] Prof Tonya Evans: Funds, which basically means you don't have to buy Bitcoin, but you can have exposure to it in this regulated package. One of the most successful ETF launches in the history of ETFs save gold. We're on the precipice now of having a second,~ um,~ ETFs for aetherium. is happening. SEC. This is an SEC approved product.
[00:14:32] Prof Tonya Evans: We have bills. I just left Congress. I was doing some high level conversations around,~ um,~ with senators and representatives and their senior staff,~ um,~ on a bipartisan basis. Not a bike. That's not a partisan issue, even though it appears to be that way with headlines. It's very,~ um,~ sad to me because it shouldn't be this way.
[00:14:51] Prof Tonya Evans: Politics is about. moving resources and politicians are in charge of those resources. So it's political, but it shouldn't be partisan.~ Um, ~this is one of those few win win things where business wins and the little guy. ~Um, ~and so we, with all of these things happening, you have all of the major banks, even those that said, this is basura, it's garbage.
[00:15:12] Prof Tonya Evans: You know, we have Jamie Dimon out there. He still says it today. Guess what? JP Morgan is an authorized participant. Who are these ETFs? One of the, you know, was almost first in line. You mentioned earlier, BlackRock, most conservative,~ um,~ investment firm in the world. Who wanted to be first in line to issue a very successful Bitcoin ETF.
[00:15:33] Prof Tonya Evans: So all of this is happening at the same time. We're being the little person is being scared away. I believe intentionally. What is it that the banks know that they don't want you to know while they are trying to get their market share dominance saying, don't trust yourself.
[00:15:49] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah,
[00:15:50] Prof Tonya Evans: Don't worry. You're pretty little head stay in our, in our playground.
[00:15:53] Prof Tonya Evans: You don't actually have to. That's that, that, that's the news. That's the news. And so this is happening. It's early in the sense that fewer than 8 percent of people around the world hold Bitcoin, but Bitcoin is not the only game in town. It's special because it has a hard cap. We call it hard money, call it sound money, and actually the currency part of it, I don't think it's borne itself out to be a currency when there's a lot of speculation.
[00:16:22] Prof Tonya Evans: I hold a lot of Bitcoin. You will not be able to pry it out of my cold dead hands. But there are other things, you know, stable coins, USDC,~ uh,~ tether, stables are going to be a really important way that people can empower themselves as well with money that's verifiable and that will hold its value. Not only here in the United States where we don't have as much of a problem, although we have inflation, we print our way into in and out of wars.
[00:16:47] Prof Tonya Evans: We print our way in and out to stimulate, stimulate the economy. All those STEMI checks that everybody's about. Not so exciting when now eggs cost a gazillion dollars. So this is the alternative and this is why individually and as businesses we have to lean in because it's not, it's not early, but it's not late.
[00:17:04] Prof Tonya Evans: Yeah.
[00:17:08] Chaz Wolfe: that you just gave there the, the banks,~ uh,~ the big money,~ um,~ the little guy being scared that I want to press into that just for a second, you know, I can remember being, you know, ridiculed,~ uh,~ by many of my family and friends,~ uh,~ for holding this thing called Bitcoin and a little bit of a theorem at that time.
[00:17:24] Chaz Wolfe: But I remember when,~ um,~ it went up to 20, 000 Bitcoin went to 20, 000 for the first time in December of. 18 or 19. I can't remember exactly, but in 18. Yep. Okay. And, and then it, then just right. And it was interesting because I kept not at the time, cause I couldn't tell. And I was, you know, I was just a young guy that threw some money into it.
[00:17:45] Chaz Wolfe: I really didn't know what I was doing. ~Um, ~but looking back and zooming out, it was like, okay, it actually, what it felt like was that.~ Um, ~the rush was for the big guy to be able to get in while it was low and then in comes the flood, right? And so everybody's happy about it So it's almost like nobody really talked about it because everybody was on the on on the upramp, right?
[00:18:05] Chaz Wolfe: But but quietly while everyone was out because everybody got freaked out about it and oh this it see I told you all my family See, I told you I told you I told you And, and I just held, of course, but,~ um,~ but, but so many people didn't right. Just like the stock market. Ah, and they get out. Right. And, and so, but who got in all of the institutional pieces that you're talking about and then now it's like, okay, now, now we're excited about it.
[00:18:28] Chaz Wolfe: Hey, I want to be first in line. Hey, here we go. And then boom, here it comes. Right. What, what are your thoughts on that?
[00:18:33] Prof Tonya Evans: It's so true. What it proves to me is something that I had to experience,~ uh,~ myself. I'm grateful that I did not sell that, but I sold a lot of other stuff because there was a lot of crap that was a Rising because a rising tide lifts all boats, right? ~Um, ~and to your point, so in a bull market, everybody's happy.
[00:18:51] Prof Tonya Evans: There's very little to talk about until the market does what markets do. I just,~ uh,~ one of my,~ um,~ free masterclasses is called,~ uh,~ the Bitcoin bounce back and,~ uh,~ the way that I demonstrate what you're talking about is to take the early days of the knees, the early days of the Dow, the early days of the S and P 500,~ uh,~ particularly the niece.
[00:19:10] Prof Tonya Evans: So when you think about the New York,~ uh,~ stock exchange, Rambunctious gang of probably thieves, quite frankly, under the buttonwood, you know, making their little agreements, doing their little dirt, right? Which led to the SEC and all sorts of legislation and regulations that came in to provide stability.
[00:19:29] Prof Tonya Evans: The stability brought more retail, and it grew over time. When you take the wide view of the Every single market and its activities, you know, there's a time, you know, there's a rise in the fall. There's a bull in the bear, the things that happen. In spite of the soundness of a stock, for example, when you have micro,~ uh,~ macro economics, everything can go great until you have this little thing called a pandemic, right?
[00:19:54] Prof Tonya Evans: Having nothing to do with the underlying asset the day before, but then circumstances change. It proved to me, I knew nothing about money. I knew nothing about markets. And that's after what I didn't say before law school, I went to Northwestern. I was on the Dean's list at the end. I was there on a tennis scholarship.
[00:20:11] Prof Tonya Evans: I played tennis. Professionally for four years, having nothing to do with what we're talking about now, but to add to my timeline, all of that educational privilege, I knew nothing about money. I knew nothing about markets. I knew nothing about banking other than I was supposed to do these traditional things.
[00:20:26] Prof Tonya Evans: ~Um, ~get a good government job or the equivalent. So came out, make a six figures, do that, be a high income earner. ~Um, ~get a home, some rental property, max out 403b, I guess get a burial plot, marry someone, and then just ride this jiggy joint out. Like this is evidently what you're supposed to do. Those traditional approaches are not enough when things change.
[00:20:45] Prof Tonya Evans: This is where we find ourselves. So all of the traditional messages do all of those things. It will not be enough. The bankers know it. Governments know it. A lot of the FUD or the fear, uncertainty, and doubt that we see is disinformation, not just misinformation. It's intentional,~ um,~ to keep you on the sidelines, to keep you in fear, to keep you reliant.
[00:21:09] Prof Tonya Evans: But if you want to get the same thing that you've always been getting, by all means, keep doing what you're doing. There is a new way. There's a new opportunity. And the only impediment is our willingness to learn
[00:21:20] Chaz Wolfe: that's right.
[00:21:21] Prof Tonya Evans: what's the point. What, what, you know, even if you're not a technologist or financial person, read the Satoshi white paper, nine pages that literally changed the world.
[00:21:31] Prof Tonya Evans: nine pages, seven footnotes.
[00:21:33] Prof Tonya Evans: ~Um, ~and just realize that the self determination as a matter of self sufficiency of autonomy of privacy. I mean, I just, I know I'm preaching to the converted chads, but I'm just trying to tell you, is there one who will come? I feel like I've re I've reached sermon level at this point.
[00:21:52] Prof Tonya Evans: Is there
[00:21:52] Chaz Wolfe: wooing me.
[00:21:53] Prof Tonya Evans: So I mean, I don't think about it often, but when I do, it's that
[00:21:56] Chaz Wolfe: Well, I, first of, first off, it's extremely powerful,~ uh,~ to hear someone of your education,~ um,~ success. Like, I mean, just history, to be honest, to say things like I knew nothing. And my world's been rocked. And so what that, what that does is it gives courage to the other person of going, well, if she didn't know, then I don't feel too bad.
[00:22:17] Chaz Wolfe: But then the other half of it is like, well, geez, if she doesn't know how, how am I supposed to know? So I want to use this as a beautiful little segue because you have three myths,~ um,~ that you've debunked and I want you to go through them,~ um,~ to help the,~ uh,~ the,~ uh,~ listener kind of know a little bit more about what this means, what are these myths?
[00:22:34] Prof Tonya Evans: I spend a lot of time talking about three in particular because they're just the ones I imagine that you've heard them, you know, around your dinner table or in your social circles as well. We've kind of talked about one in particular about only for criminals.
[00:22:47] Prof Tonya Evans: ~Um, ~less than 1 percent this, these are chain Alice's chain Alice's,~ uh,~ statistics. ~Um, ~Jane Alice's is a private company that actually often works with department of justice. And,~ um,~ companies for cyber crimes involving digital currencies,~ um,~ with a great deal of success because, in fact, less than 1 percent of crypto currencies are used for nefarious purposes when they do.
[00:23:12] Prof Tonya Evans: Packs a punch because of the pervasiveness of the technology. So it's not to understate the impact even with a small percentage, but it's to right size the conversation. The number one currency involved by leaps and bounds is the almighty dollar, which continues for now to be the global reserve currency by leaps and bounds. It's just no comparison. ~Um, ~but I don't know about you, I'm not throwing out my dollars. ~Um, ~I love my crypto, but the least the dollars I have, I plan to keep them. I need us to have a right conversation there. Kind of touched on the idea of,~ uh,~ crypto writ large being a, being a fad. Or just the underlying technology itself being a scam.
[00:23:55] Prof Tonya Evans: No. They're scammers in the same way that when electronic mail email was first launched, and still to this day, evidently there's someone in some foreign country that would like my banking information so they could send me 10, 000. Okay, we did not throw out email, we are not throwing out SMS because we're not getting them on our phones.
[00:24:16] Prof Tonya Evans: It is the activity of scamming and the reason that people are more,~ um,~ susceptible to scams is because they don't know what they don't know. So it just makes you an easy patsy where they're, you know, when I think of FTX, for example,~ um,~ and using a centralized exchange model. Okay. Under the pretense of this new financial technology, where it really was a centralized exchange and it won and exchange is not a bank, not FDIC insured.~ Um, ~gets people to leave assets that were supposed to be there temporarily to exchange one crypto asset for another with the promise of 8 percent yield, et cetera. Obviously that's much better than the money that we could get in the savings account. I'm all for it except unbeknownst to them and without their permission, you using that transferring those assets off and out of FTX to Alameda research.
[00:25:10] Prof Tonya Evans: Owned by who? Sam Bankman Freed. That's classic Ponzi. That's Madoff. That's Lehman brothers, but it casts a huge cloud over crypto because people didn't know better. Or people who are short term thinkers and are trying to replicate a day trading or swing trading in a crypto market when they don't know what the hell they're doing.
[00:25:33] Chaz Wolfe: Yep.
[00:25:34] Prof Tonya Evans: This is 24, 7, 365, not beholden to barters. It requires far more respect and prudence than most people use it. They were just throwing their money in hoping for a quick return. That's called gambling. If you're not learning, you're gambling and it's not because of the technology. So those are some of the myths that I bust or at least right size the conversation so that people have better information and make more informed decisions when they enter the
[00:25:58] Chaz Wolfe: Hey Kings and Queens, Chaz Wolf. I want to talk to you about something that's super important to me. We put a lot of time and effort, we meaning myself and my team into this podcast, into the content that goes out every single day. And if you have been getting any sort of value or insight from this, we want it to be able to reach other business owners too.
[00:26:17] Chaz Wolfe: So we would love if you would like comment, share, leave a review, post, share again, all of the things. On social media on all the different platforms or even on the podcast mediums of apple and spotify We would love to be able to get our content into more hands more entrepreneurs So they can grow their business as quick as possible together We are building a community of like minded entrepreneurs who are committed to growing their businesses to new heights So let's do this.
[00:26:43] Chaz Wolfe: Let's help each other grow
[00:26:45] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. That,~ uh,~ three, six, five, seven days a week thing,~ uh,~ hit me square between the, the eyes, cause that's exactly what I was doing. ~Uh, ~I remember waking up in the middle of the night and trading make on the way to the, yeah, to, to relieve myself in the middle of the night,~ uh,~ to, you know, from all the water I drank.
[00:27:01] Chaz Wolfe: It's like, let me check real quick. Oh, Oh, hurry quick. Yeah. And it's like, I'm, I'm going to spin myself off this planet. Is what
[00:27:10] Prof Tonya Evans: That's correct.~ ~
[00:27:11] Chaz Wolfe: ~Um, ~and so, yeah, even, even if I was good,~ uh,~ luckily I, I didn't,~ um,~ gamble it away. ~Um, ~thank goodness. But looking back on it, it was like, Oh my goodness. Whoa. Whoa.
[00:27:21] Prof Tonya Evans: on, I bought every token that I could imagine. I bought something called MomCoin. It was, turned out to be an unregistered security. But, and I'm not even a mother! Right? It's like, What the hell am I doing buying MomCoin? Come on, I just Yeah, so we've all been there. The,~ uh,~ my goal now is really to compress the learning curve for folks, the tools and the technology now are so much better than when you and I got into the space and they will continue to evolve the user, you know, UI, UX, or the interface and the experiences that we have,~ uh,~ when they're more trusted participants in the market, there's greater clarity.
[00:27:57] Prof Tonya Evans: ~Um, ~we have a better bull cycle. I mean, we shook out a lot of bad actors. If you were around two or three bull cycles, even just one. You had a real damn deal because every time we have one of these, right, we're shaking out. It's just a necessary part of an emerging asset class. Every single asset class did the same thing.
[00:28:15] Prof Tonya Evans: Housing, gold, all of them. It's the same cycle. So hopefully we also get some comfort for that, but it requires us to learn about the system that we've been participating in and relying upon in a season where in the last 12 months, at least four regional American banks have failed. Where's that on the headlines to continue to talk about?
[00:28:39] Prof Tonya Evans: Republic Bank just happened two, three weeks ago. No one's talking about that. Don't worry your pretty little head. Keep doing what you're doing. And our fractional system that is not, has not been on the gold standard for decades. It is based upon our trust, our full faith and credit in a government that comes up against governmental debt crises every six months.
[00:29:01] Chaz Wolfe: I was gonna say 45 days.
[00:29:02] Prof Tonya Evans: And right. This is the system. You ask me what. Bitcoin is back by, well, I can actually look and we can talk about it and we can tell you, and we agree on the rules. And if you don't have to participate in it, it doesn't benefit me if you do, or you don't, I don't, there's no in it for me that as an alternative, as a hedge against inflation, where you have for the first time in a long time, have really hard sound money.
[00:29:27] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. It's
[00:29:28] Prof Tonya Evans: I mean, this is worth a look.
[00:29:29] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. Okay. So someone might be wondering, listening to us going, okay, well, so there's some myths, we've debunked those. ~Um, ~I I'm on, I'm on the train. Like you've, I'm, I'm coming. You've wooed me.
[00:29:39] Prof Tonya Evans: All right. Got the ticket to ride. All right. Here we
[00:29:41] Chaz Wolfe: make money with crypto
[00:29:44] Prof Tonya Evans: Thinking, I think if you are thinking about it as a long term view, ~ um,~ understanding your risk tolerance, really taking a look at an actual portfolio. Like we're talking about portfolio and diversification. If you haven't even really sat down to say, what is my portfolio?
[00:30:01] Prof Tonya Evans: What's in it? How do I sit down and actually look at,~ um,~ do I own a home? What are the other things? And it's not a linear process. Thinking of ways that debt plays a role when you don't, you're not suffering under, you know, the, the, the, the scourge of consumer debt, but maybe leveraging things in other ways.
[00:30:25] Prof Tonya Evans: You have access to fidelity and Vanguard and each rate, all of these different Robin, all of these different platforms that are giving you access and exposure, but you want to,~ um,~ be prudent. It's like the word of the day. Class, right? ~Um, ~about the long term thinking you could do day and swing trading. My course and my approach is not for that person, but at least you can learn through the book about some of the myths.
[00:30:52] Prof Tonya Evans: But if you were looking to substantially change the outlook for retirement, I'm a Gen X er. I talk a lot to,~ um,~ late millennials, Gen X ers,~ um,~ young boomers.
[00:31:04] Prof Tonya Evans: What is that going to look like
[00:31:06] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah.
[00:31:07] Prof Tonya Evans: in 50 years, let alone in five? How do I set myself up to decrease the amount of time it takes me to make up for lost time when I was spending a lot of money as a high income earner, month to month, looking good, making all the mistakes. This has changed my life and my family's life slowly, but surely. I bought a home. My mom lives in travel. ~Um, ~I'm better able to do everything I want to and nothing I don't. I'm currently on an unpaid leave from my school because of my book. And they paid me the first year to do it. And they said, okay, come on back professor.
[00:31:44] Prof Tonya Evans: It's like, I don't know. South of France was nice. It was like, Oh, let's talk about it next year. I gave myself room. That means I have choices. I have the choice of freedom. I have the choice of time.
[00:31:54] Chaz Wolfe: right.
[00:31:56] Prof Tonya Evans: ~Um, ~which is the only thing that's finite in my humble estimation, as those are the reasons that you start leaning in.
[00:32:01] Prof Tonya Evans: You will make money over time. Be patient, be thoughtful, be prudent, get started.
[00:32:10] Chaz Wolfe: I mean, I think,~ um,~ I just sat with,~ um,~ a group of investors a couple of weeks ago. ~Um, ~there was a, a land presentation. There was a different real estate, maybe a multifamily presentation. There was a guy that was there for precious metals, really
[00:32:23] Prof Tonya Evans: Mm hmm.
[00:32:24] Chaz Wolfe: metal,~ uh,~ you know, conversation because it's very similar to this.
[00:32:27] Chaz Wolfe: It was, it was this conversation, you know, before crypto really existed. ~Um, ~and so even in that presentation, his, his, his advice was, look, don't, you're not going to put everything into gold and then boom, like you're a millionaire or whatever, whatever the number is, you, you, you buy it. You, you just, you just buy little bits.
[00:32:46] Chaz Wolfe: Every week, every month, every, every quarter, whatever your, your buying frame is. And that's what I'm hearing you say, which is when I think about crypto now, I think about those few years where I was just, you know, slinging, running and gunning and slinging. It was just like, Oh my goodness, my head was going to spin off.
[00:33:00] Chaz Wolfe: That's, that's not really. Leveraging the power of what you're talking about the next five or 50 or 500 years, my children or my grandchildren's, you know, five generations deep or whatever. ~Um, ~are, is there, is there a chance that the dollars are going to be there? Yeah.
[00:33:17] Prof Tonya Evans: Huge.
[00:33:18] Chaz Wolfe: there a
[00:33:19] Prof Tonya Evans: Huge chance.
[00:33:19] Chaz Wolfe: that Bitcoin still might be there?
[00:33:21] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah.
[00:33:22] Chaz Wolfe: Okay. Well, let's see. There's a couple of resources out there. If you don't quite believe that yet, I'd be happy to put them in the show notes. You know? So
[00:33:28] Prof Tonya Evans: Absolutely.
[00:33:29] Chaz Wolfe: a long term play? Yeah. Can I make some money along the way? I think you did a great job of illustrating that, but, but it's the same reason why I'm going to, I'm going to buy a little bits of, of investment in other things.
[00:33:41] Chaz Wolfe: ~Um, ~I'm going to diversify. I'm going to be prudent about my decision making. So I think, I think you've done an amazing job. Anything else you want to add there as far as like the actual income opportunity with, with what we've been talking about?
[00:33:52] Prof Tonya Evans: It's really interesting. There are three things,~ uh,~ two things I'll say about that. One is while you're learning, you still should have exposure to markets. Obviously this is not legal or financial advice. So, you know. Do your own research, but research with sound sources and resources, as we mentioned earlier.
[00:34:10] Prof Tonya Evans: I'm really excited about exchange traded funds. In addition to my own, what you're talking about, dollar cost averaging, or Satoshi cost averaging, buying a little bit over time, it's the set it and forget it. In the same way that I make regular consistent contributions to my retirement plans, it comes out when that money is earned and goes immediately in the same thing that you at a bare minimum do in the crypto space.
[00:34:34] Prof Tonya Evans: ~Um, ~also buying the dip you talked about,~ uh, Uh, ~a retreat and a kind of a retracing that's a great opportunity when that happens. And everybody else is like, see, I told you something like, thank God. Cause I can increase my basis. The same amount of money is going further in terms of investment. When you have that, that pullback.
[00:34:51] Prof Tonya Evans: ~Um, ~Et cetera. And every asset class goes through that. And additionally, in addition to that, when you have crypto assets, you can then lean into decentralized finance and really become your own bank and kind of your own lending institution in the sense of pulling out the equivalent of taking the equivalent of a home equity loan, right?
[00:35:10] Prof Tonya Evans: If I have, I can lock up my Bitcoin. ~Uh, ~don't like doing that. Let's use another asset. ~Um, ~I can lock up my Ethereum. ~Um, ~and then. One, if there's some type of return and you're starting to see some of those products return, know that Gemini got into some heat about its earned product, but you're going to start seeing those come back.
[00:35:26] Prof Tonya Evans: ~Um, ~not just with Gemini, but,~ uh,~ across the board, you can earn nice yields and,~ um,~ and interest on when you're locking up products. ~Uh, uh, ~you can also take a loan out. Right. So taking a loan off of your own thing means that's tax free and then you pay yourself back or not. So those are other opportunities passively there.
[00:35:44] Prof Tonya Evans: You will start to see more and more companies like lolly where every doing everyday things to earn Bitcoin, if you're already shopping online, why not do it through a company like that? It's not an endorsement of lolly. I, you know, do I have a lolly account and I enjoy getting paid. Sats back Satoshi's back the smallest unit of Bitcoin rather than a dollar back and keep your dollar I would like Satoshi's please.
[00:36:10] Prof Tonya Evans: Thank you. So you'll start to see more of that more merchants accepting it you see Visa and MasterCard Finding ways on the back end to facilitate the exchange of foreign currencies more easily in the background. All of this is literally happening right now and we should be able at the individual level to take advantage of it.
[00:36:30] Prof Tonya Evans: So it's more than just hold it, you know, buying and holding or huddling or hodling, depending upon how you say it, but leveraging. That's when you start making up for lost time. ~Um, ~and you can only do that when, when you're in it to win it.
[00:36:41] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, I love it. I don't remember the name of the book, but it was probably 2017 or so. And I prayed this giant thick book on basically how to integrate,~ um,~ taking Bitcoin payments into your business. And it was just one of the thickest, almost just dry, but I was just so into it. Interested in this whole thing that was happening that nobody was talking about.
[00:37:06] Chaz Wolfe: It was just like, what in the world? ~Um, ~and so, yeah, and you're starting to see that a little bit now. I think that,~ uh,~ there's several things, even large purchases, cars, homes. I've seen all those things purchased in cryptocurrency.
[00:37:16] Prof Tonya Evans: I know that Tesla did something early on that they suspended the product and you couldn't pay for the entire car, but you can put your down pay. I don't have a Tesla, but evidently it's some type of down payment process. And that was integrated. You see more political campaigns accepting contributions,~ um,~ as well, big companies deciding whether there'll be on balance sheets.
[00:37:34] Prof Tonya Evans: It's like, it's all happening right now. So we need to be paying attention as
[00:37:38] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, that's good stuff. ~Um, ~we talk a lot,~ uh,~ inside of gathering the King's mastermind group,~ uh,~ but also here on the show about the mastermind principle,~ uh,~ Napoleon Hill defines this as two or more minds working together unto the achievement of something specific or a definite chief aim, as he says.
[00:37:52] Chaz Wolfe: And so how have you used that principle, that mastermind principle inside of law inside of crypto, maybe a mixture of both, but what, what immediately pops to your head as far as using that,~ uh,~ to, to your advantage?
[00:38:04] Prof Tonya Evans: It makes me think now of the transfer that I feel like we're experiencing from a hyper competitive and siloed model to hyper collaboration.~ Um, ~and so that resonates when you think of a mastermind. I've been in masterminds as well and understanding the principle. And I've found that it's easier for me to connect with and empower people if I approach it from that point of view as well.
[00:38:30] Prof Tonya Evans: ~Um, ~I believe strongly in having small cohorts. I'm doing one for lawyers and other professionals this summer where you get 10 people together. I have one on one time with them as well. But the power of community where even if you don't ask a question or don't know a question to ask, you are constantly learning by being in the presence of others.
[00:38:51] Prof Tonya Evans: They're pressing you there as you know, causing you to think differently. ~Um, ~there's an energetic frequency that I think that is achieved when you have, you're not just in isolation. And this is me as an only child talking. I'm literally my own best friend. And the best thing you could ever do is cancel plans that we have.
[00:39:09] Prof Tonya Evans: I'm perfectly fine to be in my little briar patch. But in terms of my intellectual curiosity, in terms of my learning potential,~ um,~ and, and, and tapping that within, it's about not being the smartest person in the room. And just, you know, the iron sharpens iron,~ um,~ concept that is so powerful from a mastermind point of view.
[00:39:31] Prof Tonya Evans: So using that and certainly using it in my teaching. I had to really lean into it because,~ um,~ I haven't been in an actual classroom in four years. Now, some of that was having my,~ um,~ research leave and then,~ uh,~ my personal leave. But before that we're in the middle of the pandemonium.~ Um, ~I had to find ways to engage, you know, I'm pretty good with technology and a lot better than my, My counterparts, bless your hearts.
[00:39:56] Prof Tonya Evans: I can learn, I do know how to turn on my computer. So that was helpful. ~Um, ~but also even moving before, like, how do we have an energetic exchange,~ um,~ digitally speaking and how powerful that, that is. And. I'm grateful to my students. We're really successful with creating those opportunities. But,~ um,~ there's such power in not just having your solitary mind, but a mind of like minded spirits that are, that are kind of lifting each other up.
[00:40:24] Prof Tonya Evans: And, and,~ um,~ I, that's where you get to exponential growth and, and that quantum leap that we were talking about earlier as well.
[00:40:30] Chaz Wolfe: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think you have some great examples there, but the, the frequency, the energy that you referenced, it's tough to,~ um,~ know that unless you felt it. And when you feel it in a room,~ uh,~ especially high achievers, if someone's been listening to this,~ um,~ and if they have any interest in crypto, they've been vibing with us for sure
[00:40:47] Prof Tonya Evans: No, that's right.
[00:40:48] Chaz Wolfe: there, but there's this, there's this whole,~ uh,~ palpable,~ uh,~ Feeling even emotion that comes from being in a room of people who are heading in a specific direction.
[00:40:56] Chaz Wolfe: ~Um, ~it's funny when, when people look to join,~ um,~ gather in the Kings, I let them know that it's a room of winners. And then I'm unapologetic. The fact that winners are attracted to winners. And if you're not, you're going to hit the door as fast as you come in, because we're like obsessed with growth in all areas, not just business, not just investing, not just marriage, not just faith, not all these things.
[00:41:17] Chaz Wolfe: It's like, no, no, we're, we're winners in all of these things. And, or at least we're winning and wanting to be winning in these things. And so we're pressing in hard and that's going to like suck you in hard, like what you were talking about, or it's going to make you, you know, run the opposite direction, which is okay.
[00:41:33] Chaz Wolfe: Right.
[00:41:34] Prof Tonya Evans: Just like that. No, absolutely. And that's, that's intentional. ~Um, ~you know, it comes down to like physics really. And then someone who is not vibing at that high frequency, they just, they will run in the other direction. You don't have to ask them to leave. They'll be so unbelievably uncomfortable that they would know that either they're not ready.
[00:41:54] Prof Tonya Evans: Or they don't even know what's going on and that will repel them, that the, the energy and the connection will actually repel them. ~Uh, ~and I think that's really helpful because you don't want, and I feel like that's what's happening in the crypto space as well. ~Um, ~you can look at small interpersonal groups all the way to, to larger systems as well, but it starts.
[00:42:14] Prof Tonya Evans: And the small, like if we all did that, 10, 20 folks vibing in those pockets, the energy that is created from that,~ um,~ is really the type of thing that, that changes the world. And so, and I don't think that's hyperbolic to say,~ um,~ and if you don't get it, then you can't be a part of our mastermind.
[00:42:31] Chaz Wolfe: Well, and you've got some coming up here. I know this summer, I'm sure you're going to do some after that. ~Uh, ~you've worked with attorneys, you've worked with all different types of professionals. I'm sure that you mentioned masterclasses.
[00:42:40] Chaz Wolfe: Of course, you've got a book, but like, how can they learn more about getting involved with one of your cohorts or potentially even just getting your book or all the other things that you've got? I
[00:42:49] Prof Tonya Evans: Absolutely. Well, two places. One, everything really starts at advantage Evans dot com. The advantage Evans comes from my tennis years for sure and really setting up people for success to have their advantage that they are not wasting time. They're not spinning their wheels. They're not having misinformation or disinformation.
[00:43:08] Prof Tonya Evans: They are connected with life. like minded winners who are ready to rock, not just folks who are kind of on the sidelines, but in the fast lane and not in the fast lane to just throw all your money and you like buckshot and just hope you hit something. No, that's the, you know, it's the strategy that really comes from the mountain of information that you've already made.
[00:43:29] Prof Tonya Evans: Like you've already done all of the logical things when you're done. And you're tired of the logical things. Let's talk about exponential growth and compressing your timeline. And so that really comes from,~ um,~ a cohort that I'm doing this summer. I call it more like a strategy sprint because people don't always have a year's worth of time.
[00:43:49] Prof Tonya Evans: They don't even want to do like a Like I am, you know, I will sit there and actually do an online course. I love online courses. I love masterminds. I've paid a gazillion dollars for all these things. Some people, they do not have the time, but they have the desire for exponential growth. This would be a program for you.
[00:44:03] Prof Tonya Evans: You can learn at advantageevans. com forward slash consult. ~Um, ~right now it's in wait list form because it's not for everybody. So the opportunity to get on the wait list, find out more information, also jump on a one on one. ~Uh, ~with me, let's see where you are and talk about strategy. ~Um, ~not just as an investor, but also business folks and lawyers who are trying to figure out how to show up for,~ um,~ the, the unbelievable needs of businesses in, in web three.
[00:44:32] Prof Tonya Evans: So doing that advantage Evans dot com forward slash consult and everything else can be found at advantage Evans dot com. The book,~ uh,~ the master class, free resources, et cetera. ~Um, ~and so there's something for everyone, but I'm really focusing on those kind of the high achievers who are really, really ready to rock,~ um,~ and move forward in a short period of time,~ uh,~ to get set up for success.
[00:44:54] Chaz Wolfe: I love it. ~Uh, ~you, the, the frequency going back to the energy. I mean, gosh, they would be silly not to go,~ uh,~ check you out. I mean, just the simple,~ uh,~ little drops of, of things that you've said. You've been totally serious about one little sentence and then you throw in, something totally that makes you real.
[00:45:11] Chaz Wolfe: And I just love
[00:45:12] Prof Tonya Evans: Yeah. Keep up.
[00:45:13] Chaz Wolfe: Got to keep up. That's for sure. ~Uh, ~they're gonna have to go back and listen to this one again to catch all your little nuances there. In all seriousness. Prof T, you've been amazing,~ uh,~ doctor in some forms. Professor,~ uh, uh, ~capital T all the way. We just appreciate your time.
[00:45:29] Chaz Wolfe: Not only just, again, I said at the beginning, not just in,~ uh,~ you sharing here,~ um,~ they've gotten like, The tip of the iceberg,~ uh,~ but just the years of mastery that you have brought to this conversation. I just so appreciate that. ~Um, ~because we get to be the benefactor of that. So thank you so much.
[00:45:44] Chaz Wolfe: Blessings to you, your family. ~Um, ~all of the things that you're touching here and all the people that you're helping. We appreciate you.
[00:45:50] Prof Tonya Evans: I appreciate you so much. And it's the first, but I hope it's not the last, because this is an ongoing conversation. We want to keep people lifted and keep people ready. High frequency, high frequency.
Thank you for listening to Gathering the Kings today. I hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away. More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be successful than just being by yourself, doing it all on your own, carrying the weight all by yourself.
What I have realized, not only in my own journey from multiple businesses and multiple different industries, and now interviewing over 200 or Other very successful seven, eight, and nine figure business owners is that it's tough to do it alone. And so gathering the Kings exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs.
In fact, we are putting together 1000 Kings specifically who are grateful, but not done. We're intentionally assembling Kings who fight tooth and nail for their business, family, and communities. And here's what we believe that in the pursuit of excellence in those areas, That it ignites within us, the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy.
So if that relates and resonates with you, and you know, that you need people around you, sharp, qualified, other very successful business owners. I want you to go to gatheringthekings. com. Once you take a look at what we're doing and see if it makes sense for you to be part of our pursuit to 1000 Kings talk soon.

Host Chaz Wolfe welcomes Professor Tonya M. Evans to discuss cryptocurrency. They uncover what big banks don’t want you to know, debunk top crypto myths, and share tips on making money with crypto. This episode also covers blockchain technology, investment cautions, and the future of cryptocurrency.

Professor Tonya M. Evans:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonyamarieevans/

Website: https://techintersectpodcast.com/

Website: https://www.advantageevans.com/consult

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