471 | Never Lose An Employee Again | Joey Coleman
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[00:00:00] Joey Coleman: If we look at the research right now, depending on whose studies you look at, somewhere between 50 and 60 percent of Americans are actively considering a new job this year. So ask yourself, which 50 to 60 percent of your team can you do without?
[00:00:13] Joey Coleman: I don't know any company that could withstand 50 percent turnover. If they want to hit their goals this year and next year
[00:00:24] Chaz Wolfe: Has this ever happened to you? You need someone to work in your business. You interview a person, you offer them the job and both of you are really excited, but then they never show up for the first day of training or they leave just after a few days of starting the job. And you think, wow, it's so hard to find good people these days.
[00:00:42] Chaz Wolfe: This is driven to win. The show that helps you, the entrepreneur who wants to win in all areas and isn't afraid to do the work to get there. I'm your host, Chaz Wolfe. My mission on this show is to help entrepreneurs grow and win in all areas, business, family, health, faith, and lifestyle. We have Joey Coleman on the show today.
[00:01:00] Chaz Wolfe: He's an expert in keeping employees happy and staying at their jobs. This is part two of our talk, though, in part one, we talked about how to never lose a customer again. If you missed it, make sure to watch the previous show to learn about customer retention, too. But today we're talking about Joey's book, Never Lose an Employee Again.
[00:01:17] Chaz Wolfe: In this episode, Joey shares his eight steps of employee experience. This is exactly what he teaches big companies to keep their employees motivated, hardworking, and happy. And he's here today to teach you how to do it, too. You want to learn how to keep your team happy? Stick around. Keep watching. This episode is for you.
[00:01:36] Chaz Wolfe: The employee track. We've got team members there. They're in an experience. They're experiencing our business, the same eight phases apply, give us a little rundown for the employee side.
[00:01:47] Joey Coleman: Absolutely. Same eight phases with one change in name, but not change in experience. Let me give them to you a first one. The assess phase where perspective employees assessing whether or not they want to come work for us. They're checking out our job listing the about us page on our website. They're going on LinkedIn to see who else they know that might work at the company as well.
[00:02:04] Joey Coleman: They're reading reviews on glass door. They're assessing whether or not they want to work for us in the same way that we're assessing whether or not we want to hire them as they go through the interview process and submitting applications, we then come to the second phase. The accept phase. Now this is different.
[00:02:19] Joey Coleman: You might remember in the customer phase, we called it the admit phase here. We call it the accept phase because we extend an offer and ideally they accept the offer. They transition from being a candidate to being an actual employee, but then don't forget they go to that third phase, the affirm phase.
[00:02:36] Joey Coleman: While we had buyer's remorse on the customer side, here we have new hire's remorse. This is the scientifically proven experience of accepting a job offer and then doubting the decision you just made to accept that job offer. What are we doing to reaffirm their choice, to let them know this is going to be a great place to work.
[00:02:56] Joey Coleman: We then come to phase four, the activate phase. This is the first official day on the job when they show up for day one. And in this phase, we want to remember the words of country music legend, Reba McIntyre, when she says, let's give them something to talk about. Right? Because we know that those new employees after their first day on the job are going to go home and their significant other, their partner, their spouse, their parents, their kids, whoever it is closest in their family.
[00:03:22] Joey Coleman: The first thing they're going to ask them when they walk through the day is how was the first day? If we know for a fact that that is gonna be the first question, why, as employers aren't we being more strategic about queuing up the type of answer we want them to give? Huge missed opportunity that most companies fail on dramatically.
[00:03:44] Joey Coleman: We then come to the acclimate phase. This begins on day two, the second day on the job, and last for weeks and months while this cut, new employee. Acclimates to our way of doing business. What's their role? What are the responsibilities? What are the requirements of the job? What are the other relationships with their colleagues and coworkers that they're going to need to maintain too many businesses, fire hose information at a new hire, and then are shocked when the new hire quits two weeks into the job.
[00:04:11] Joey Coleman: They quit because they're overwhelmed. They quit because they're like, Oh my gosh, this is ridiculous. I'll never learn all this stuff. We need to think more intentionally about how we onboard our people. We then come to the accomplish phase where the employee achieves the goal they had when they originally accepted the job offer.
[00:04:27] Joey Coleman: Now, pro tip here for all you business owners listening in. The goal is not a paycheck. Sometimes we think the goal is a paycheck. Yes, we've got a pair of people. We've got to pay them well, and we've got to pay them regularly. Very few people are that you want to have on your team are taking the job solely for the paycheck.
[00:04:47] Joey Coleman: They're taking the job because they want to grow. They want to learn. They want new responsibilities. They want more flexibility. They want a different vision of the world. They want to be part of something bigger than themselves. We need to track what our employees goals are and make sure we celebrate those accomplishments along the way.
[00:05:03] Joey Coleman: We then come to the adopt phase. The employee becomes loyal to us and only us. They're not going anywhere else. They're not answering the headhunter calls. But again, these are the ones we take for granted. Your employees who have been with you the longest are often the ones you're paying least attention to. We need to change. We need to be better about that because we're also at a much bigger threat. If those people leave the institutional knowledge, we lose the clients that can leave with them huge problems. And last but not least, the final phase, again, the advocate phase where our employees become raving fans, singing our praises far and wide.
[00:05:39] Joey Coleman: And I'll tell you, Chaz, I talked to businesses around the world, and lots of times when I outline these eight phases to leaders, they say, Oh, Joey, all of our employees are advocates. And I'm like, really? Let's put that to the test. How many open positions are you hiring for right now? Oh, well, we've got three positions we're looking to fill.
[00:05:56] Joey Coleman: Great. How many of the candidates you're interviewing are direct referrals from existing employees? Uh, well, I, I don't know if any of them are, then you don't actually have advocates. You might have adopters, but the sign of an advocate is somebody who, as soon as you say, Oh, we're looking for a new head of sales in Chicago, they're like, let me think of everybody I went to college with that lives in Chicago.
[00:06:21] Joey Coleman: Let me think, you know, my cousin's cousin lives in Chicago. I'm going to call them and say, who do you know? That's an awesome salesperson because I work at an amazing company and I want more amazing people to work here. That's an advocate. Now, not every employee is going to make it all the way to advocacy, but we certainly want all of our employees to make it to the adopt level and then a significant percentage to also light up as advocates as well.
[00:06:46] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. Where do you see, I mean, we kind of went through a couple different of the sections on the client side, but you know, you've worked with some big companies, you know, I've got a list here, Zappos, you know, Whirlpool Hyatt hotels, NASA, I mean, these are some incredible organizations where, where are they falling short even at that level on the employee side?
[00:07:05] Joey Coleman: Yeah, I would say a couple phases. Number one, it's probably comes as no surprise that a firm phase. That new hires remorse phase, some brand new research out of Gardner looked at 3000 people that accepted job offers. They then went to those 3000 people on the first day on the job and said, how was your first day?
[00:07:23] Joey Coleman: And what the research found is that 50 percent of the people who had accepted job offers. Had not shown up for the first day on the job because they had accepted job offers somewhere else. That's the marketplace today. There are 2. 3 jobs open in the United States for every one worker that we have to fill those jobs.
[00:07:43] Joey Coleman: This is a huge demographic problem. It's not getting better anytime soon. There are fixes, but it's not going to be one thing that fixes it and we're not going to see any change anytime soon. In frankly, the next decade. So we need to recognize that the landscape has changed. Number two, we see a lot of things fall apart in that acclimate phase, which I alluded to earlier.
[00:08:04] Joey Coleman: We try to teach that new hire everything that they need to know about the role in two days. And it's like, this is a, this is a mistake. More than 50 percent of companies spend less than two days onboarding new hires. So, by the way, if you're listening in and you're like, Oh, we have a week long programmer.
[00:08:24] Joey Coleman: We do a month of onboarding. Consider yourself lucky. Consider yourself, you know, best in class. Only 5 percent of companies globally spend more than a month onboarding. Now, here's my question. If you want this employee to stay for longer than a month, shouldn't you be willing to invest more than a month getting them up to speed?
[00:08:46] Joey Coleman: To me, this feels pretty logical. And then the last one where we see things fall apart, as I mentioned earlier, is again in that adopt phase. Right now, I want you to think of the two or three employees that mean the most to you. The two or three team members that your business couldn't exist without. And then I want to ask you, when is the last time you told them that in a meaningful, tangible way?
[00:09:10] Joey Coleman: What I mean by that is, with a handwritten note, with a filmed video, with a present or a gift that came with a card and a package and an artifact, or is it one of these flyby appreciations, like, Ah, Chaz, couldn't do without you, buddy. All right, everybody, back to work tomorrow. It's like, that is a fleeting whisper in the life. We can do better.
[00:09:31] Chaz Wolfe: course. Yeah, that actually is a great segue here because you've mentioned, um, in your book and this probably goes for, for employees as well, but basically having more joy through the process. And really it's, I think you kind of tie it into being more real, which is kind of what you were just saying there, like as an employee, if I'm going to appreciate someone, maybe be specific, maybe be intentional about like, Hey, this happened yesterday and I really appreciate you for that.
[00:09:57] Chaz Wolfe: Um, but. Whether it's with clients or with, um, employees, how can a business owner listen to you today going, okay, I need to be more joyful through this, these eight phases. How does this work?
[00:10:09] Joey Coleman: I think the best way to create joy for the people we interact with is to lean into personal and emotional connections. So the difference between a coworker and a colleague, so a coworker, you see them on Monday and you say, Hey Chaz, how was your weekend? A colleague, I see Chaz on Monday and they say, Hey Chaz, how was your aunt's birthday party? See, the distinction there is I knew how Chaz was spending his weekend because I asked on Friday, and then I remembered on Monday when I saw him again to ask in a way that was personal, that acknowledged what was going on in your life, not my life. I tried to do this with my team all the time. Uh, this episode is going to come out after this, so it's fair to say my director of details.
[00:10:54] Joey Coleman: Which some people might call my personal assistant or my executive assistant. Her title is director of details. Has a son. His birthday is this week. He's getting presents delivered to the house from me and my family for his birthday. Now I don't say that to be, Oh, look how cool and amazing Joey is. I share that to say you are amazing.
[00:11:18] Joey Coleman: Only limited by the bounds of your own creativity. When you think about ways you can show your employees that they matter, that you care about them. Notice the gift isn't for my director of details. It's not for her. It's for her child. But if you're a parent listening, you know that when people do nice things for your kids, You like it and you like them more and other than immediate family members.
[00:11:44] Joey Coleman: Who else is giving gifts to your kids? No one so when suddenly it's oh this gift comes from mommy's boss. She would never say that I would never say it to her but you know to be able to have that contextualization of mommy spends her day working For mr. Joey and his family decided to send this gift to you for your birthday You Guess what?
[00:12:05] Joey Coleman: It's probably a lot easier for her to navigate work commitments and explain those to her child when they have a context for, Oh, this is someone that we like. This is someone that's in our circle. This is someone that cares about us.
[00:12:18] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, that's right. It changes work to Mr. Joey. And just that, just that small transition right there. It's so good. Um, what do you, you, you've talked about, um, you mentioned this on the, on the client side, but you also at the end, um, you've mentioned it on the employee, like where they've got a goal, a specific thing that they want to accomplish.
[00:12:36] Chaz Wolfe: Um, and then. On the client side, you gave the example of this, the t shirt at the dinner. And you know, then that's like for them, like winning, like the t shirt did what I was supposed to, I got the hot date or whatever. And on the employee side, we, we talked about money, but really we didn't go very far into that.
[00:12:50] Chaz Wolfe: So I want to tap just a little further. And so of course they're going to use money, but unto the things that they want. And so whatever those things are, you talk a lot about celebrating those things with them. Talk about how do we celebrate?
[00:13:03] Joey Coleman: Well, I think there's a number of ways to celebrate. I think the way most employers think about Celebrating is to give a check. And while that can be nice, the research shows that when we just give an employee the check, number one, they don't remember it long term. Number two, it doesn't have nearly the impact that a gift would have or an experience.
[00:13:24] Joey Coleman: And number three, in this day and age, the majority of employees when given an unexpected bonus or a check, put that money to pay down debt. Now, I'm not saying that that isn't a good use of your money. But there are very few people sitting around going, Oh, I'm so excited to pay down my debt this week, right?
[00:13:42] Joey Coleman: That's, it's something that it's, you're getting all the association with, Oh, how did I get into the debt in the first place? Instead, give experiences. Instead, acknowledge their own personal growth and development. One of the things I believe every employer should do, and this takes time. So I realize the suggestion I'm about to give is going to add more hours to your schedule, but I promise you it's worth it and the research supports that. Every six months, you should be meeting with every member of your team to figure out what is their goal for the next six months. I did this with my directory details not too long ago, and I said, So what are some of the things we want to work on? And she said, Well, you know, to be honest, Joey, I've been thinking that a lot of the work I do now has a project manager vibe to it as well as an executive.
[00:14:33] Joey Coleman: Assistant vibe, and I don't have any formal training in project management. So I'd like to take a course on project management. Now, some of the folks listening are saying, Oh my gosh, Joey, this is a gem. This is an employee proactively saying they want to educate themselves about things that will be direct benefit to the business.
[00:14:52] Joey Coleman: I was getting super excited when she said this and I was like, okay, sounds great. I said, what, have you found a course? Do you, do you need me to help identify one? She's like, well, I found one, but it's a little expensive. And I braced myself and I said, okay, how committed am I to developing and growing my team?
[00:15:09] Joey Coleman: She said, it's 400. Now, what those of you listening into the podcast can't see is the shock on my face that yeah, 400, no problem. I will pay 400 all day, every day to have you get skills that we can turn around and directly apply to the business. And then what I did is I tried to take it to the next level.
[00:15:31] Joey Coleman: I said, yes, sign up for the program today. Use the company credit card. Love this. How long is the program? She said, well, it's three months. I said, great. And about how many hours a week? She said, they're suggesting we do somewhere between two and three hours a week. I said, fantastic. Do me a favor. Find those two to three hours in your existing work day. She's like, Wait, I was planning to do this at night. I said, No, I appreciate that. But this is for the betterment of our business. I don't want you to carve away personal time to work on this. Figure out how to plug that in. She manages my schedule. She manages her schedule. Plug that into your day to day life.
[00:16:13] Joey Coleman: She's like, Are you sure? I said, Absolutely. I'm sure. This is amazing. Now, stop and think about some of these interactions, right? These are the kind of employees we want. These are the team members that we should be doing everything to keep, at least in my estimation. Hungry to learn, willing to sacrifice time and effort, like, good, this is, this is what we want.
[00:16:33] Joey Coleman: Fast forward. I'm thinking this is going to take three months. Seven weeks in, she messages me and says, by the way, next week, I need to carve out a little time because I'm sitting for the test to be a project manager. She had accelerated and done it on her own.
[00:16:51] Chaz Wolfe: yeah. Yeah.
[00:16:51] Joey Coleman: When we create space for our people to grow, when we support our people in the endeavors that matter to them, they will walk through fire for us.
[00:17:03] Joey Coleman: They'll do all kinds of great things for us because we're showing that we care about them as an individual. So if you're friends, by the way, you should be friends with all of your employees on social media. There's another little mic drop for all of you. Go be friends with them on social media. Why? Some people are like, Joey, that feels creepy and invasive.
[00:17:19] Joey Coleman: That's fine. No, it doesn't. Just everybody's friends with all kinds of people on social media. You extend the invitation. If they want to be friends with you. Great. If they don't, that's fine. But the majority of them are going to accept your friend request. Then what you're going to be able to do is look through their social media profile and see what actually matters to them. Who's their favorite team. What did they do on vacation? What movie did they go to last week? You're going to get all this data and all this information that you can use to create personal and emotional connection with them. And they're broadcasting this information to the world. They're sharing it with anyone and everyone that wants to find them on Instagram or Facebook or X or wherever they're at.
[00:17:56] Joey Coleman: Great. Why not take advantage of that? to deepen the relationship you have with them.
[00:18:02] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. I love the last little piece there. He said, take advantage. And, you know, usually that, that phrase is used in a negative connotation, you know, take advantage, manipulate. I'm going to, I'm going to capture this information about your family so that I can use it against you at work. I know that obviously you mean something different, but the person that's listening right now that maybe doesn't have that filter, help them understand what you mean by take advantage of, or maybe you have an employee, um, listening to this right now.
[00:18:27] Chaz Wolfe: And they're like, well, wait a second. So my boss is like, Using this information, like how, I don't understand
[00:18:32] Joey Coleman: Yeah, so to, yeah, so to the employee who's saying, Oh, my boss is using this information. You're freely sharing this information from the world. You're on social media. You're putting it out there. So if you have information that you don't want the world to know, stop posting about it on Facebook or Instagram.
[00:18:47] Joey Coleman: Okay. Full stop right there. Secondarily, by take advantage of it, I mean, focus on the ways that you can learn more about your people.
[00:18:59] Joey Coleman: Now, some of that can come from sitting down and having lunch with them, and that's great, and I love that approach, but depending on how big your team is, you might not be able to have lunch with people every week or every day.
[00:19:09] Joey Coleman: Even earlier when I said you should meet with all of your team members once every six months, some of the people listening in were like, we have 300 employees. I can't do that. Great, understood, but you should be meeting with all of your direct reports and their direct reports every six months. And you should create in your culture them meeting with their teams every six months to figure this out.
[00:19:29] Joey Coleman: And why do I say every six months? Because people are going to leave faster than you doing it annually. Okay, they are. If we look at the research right now, depending on whose studies you look at, somewhere between 50 and 60 percent of Americans are actively considering a new job this year. So ask yourself, which 50 to 60 percent of your team can you do without?
[00:19:53] Joey Coleman: I don't know any company that could withstand 50 percent turnover. If they want to hit their goals this year and next year, like, I mean, these, these numbers are staggering. So by taking advantage, what I mean is if your employees are already sharing this information publicly, they're already broadcasting it to the world.
[00:20:11] Joey Coleman: Shame on us for not listening, recording it, and then taking action on it.
[00:20:16] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, it's so good. And I think just the, the perspective going back to what you had suggested in your book about just being real, it's like that information is helpful to us being able to connect. And wouldn't you want to work in a place or have a culture in your, your business that people like want to be here with each other.
[00:20:35] Chaz Wolfe: And sometimes even in marriage, sometimes it's. It's, it's, um, it's something you have to step into, I remember what, you know, um, probably about a year or so ago, I started sending , my wife, uh, a, a morning text message every single morning I'm up way before she is. And so there's an alarm that goes off on my phone and I send her a text message.
[00:20:52] Chaz Wolfe: And when I first started doing that, number one, the actual repetitive, I don't say the same thing, but I'm affirming, I'm giving appreciation something from the day before that felt like, Oh man, I wonder if she's ever going to get like, Like tired of the same thing, you know, and then on top of that, I literally have a 5 a.
[00:21:09] Chaz Wolfe: m. reminder, like, cause I'm already up at that time and it's like, ding goes off my phone. I'm like, Oh yeah, that's right. Send the text message. And there could be some like, you know, process to that where it feels like not true or not real. But in that moment, it's a reminder. Then I can go real. I can go, okay, I really do appreciate my wife.
[00:21:25] Chaz Wolfe: Let's think about yesterday. You know, 60 seconds, find something that I'm appreciative of. And I, and I let her know. And then I, and I love her. And she, that's the first thing that she wakes up to. So it's like for anybody that's listening, yes, it's a little bit of work. And sometimes you actually need it in your calendar or a reminder and it feels fabricated, but in that moment, it's like, no, I can actually become real appreciate them or whatever the scenario is, give a gift, you know, whatever part of the process that they're in, but
[00:21:49] Joey Coleman: Chaz, I'm, I'm, I'm, well, I would say I'm with you 100%. I love this. And I love that you shared the little nuance that you have an alarm that goes off because a lot of people feel guilty about having reminders to be thoughtful. Well, here's the deal, folks. If you're always thoughtful all the time, then yes, you can avoid setting any reminders.
[00:22:08] Joey Coleman: But I've yet to meet a human being on the planet who is thoughtful 24 7, 365. It takes work to be thoughtful. And especially for the people that matter most to us, because I'd be willing to bet I'm not putting you on the spot here, but prior to doing this, I would imagine that there were less text messages to your wife.
[00:22:26] Joey Coleman: They were less consistent and they were less informed on your part of, I don't want to just send the same thing I texted yesterday. What's another reason that I love her? What's another reason that I'm thankful for having her in her life? What's another idea that I have that I hope she goes forward into her day with?
[00:22:46] Joey Coleman: And when we can prime the people that we love and that we're in relationship with, with these little magical moments, these little touches, these little delight moments of personal and emotional connection, that's what builds longterm relationships. Now do you have to do it every day? No. But for the people that are in your closest circle, I think we should tell them more often than we do.
[00:23:10] Joey Coleman: And for some of us, that means we need to start doing it every day.
[00:23:14] Chaz Wolfe: I think there's probably a couple of people in my life where I wish they had a reminder.
[00:23:18] Joey Coleman: Yeah. Right.
[00:23:19] Chaz Wolfe: And I would be okay with knowing that they had a reminder because the result of that would have been like, wow, that'd be nice to hear from you a little bit more often.
[00:23:25] Joey Coleman: absolutely. Absolutely.
[00:23:27] Chaz Wolfe: You have an incredible mind of enthusiasm throughout, uh, the entire show here.
[00:23:31] Chaz Wolfe: I'm sure you carry that with you everywhere, but where can the listeners find you? Of course, we'll have it in the show notes as well, but what's easy to find you online.
[00:23:37] Joey Coleman: So the best place to find me online is on my website, joeycolman. com. That's J O E Y like a baby kangaroo or a five year old, you know, Coleman, C O L E M A N, like the camping equipment, but no relation, joeycolman. com. My books are called Never Lose a Customer Again and Never Lose an Employee Again.
[00:23:55] Joey Coleman: They're available wherever you get books in whatever format you like to consume books. So we've got a hardcover, you can write in the margins. We've got an ebook. You can read and highlight on your Kindle or your Nook. If you're using a Nook, super exciting. I'd love to meet you. And we also have an audio book that I narrate.
[00:24:10] Joey Coleman: So if you've enjoyed the sound of my voice on this show, I will read both of the books to you if you'd like to have me do that.
[00:24:17] Chaz Wolfe: I love it. Uh, and we've had, uh, actually a few of our team members in preparation for the show, go through, um, well, I think one of each actually. And so just, just an incredible mind. Again, there's great words. You've, you've, you've. I just a whole, well, I could go over hours here, but I so appreciate you. Uh, blessings to you and your family, everyone that you're touching here this year.
[00:24:34] Chaz Wolfe: Um, yeah, I can only imagine that it's going to bring blessings. So thank you so much for being
[00:24:37] Joey Coleman: Oh, thank you, Chaz. And thanks to everybody who listened in and joined us for the conversation. I hope you had as much fun and left with as many ideas as I'm leaving with after having a chance to connect and talk with Chaz today.
[00:24:49] Chaz Wolfe: Thank you for listening to driven to win. I hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away. More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be successful than just being by yourself, doing it all on your own, carrying the weight all by yourself.
[00:25:06] Chaz Wolfe: What I have realized, not only in my own journey from multiple businesses and multiple different industries, and now interviewing over two or 300, Other very successful seven, eight and nine figure business owners is that it's tough to do it alone. And so gathering the Kings exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs.
[00:25:24] Chaz Wolfe: In fact, we are putting together 1000 Kings specifically who are grateful, but not done. We're intentionally assembling Kings who fight tooth and nail for their business, family, and communities. And here's what we believe that in the pursuit of excellence in those areas. That it ignites within us, the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy.
[00:25:48] Chaz Wolfe: So if that relates and resonates with you, and you know, that you need people around you, sharp, qualified, other very successful business owners. I want you to go to gatheringthekings. com. I want you to take a look at what we're doing and see if it makes sense for you to be part of our pursuit to 1000 Kings.
[00:26:07] Chaz Wolfe: Talk soon.
Joey Coleman, an expert in employee experience, joins Chaz Wolfe to discuss his eight steps of employee experience. Joey explains the assess, accept, and activate phases, highlighting their importance in onboarding. Joey then explores the acclimate, accomplish, and adopt stages, emphasizing seamless integration. The advocate phase and its impact on employee referrals are also covered. They address retention issues in large companies, the significance of celebrating milestones, and personal growth strategies.
Joey Coleman:
https://joeycoleman.com/ linkedin.com/in/joeycoleman1/
Joey's Book, Never Lose an Employee Again:
https://amzn.to/4bNE03q
Chaz's favorite morning drink to fuel him for his day
Code: GATHERINGKINGS10
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