502 | How to Scale Fast: The Secrets Behind a $2 Billion Business

Mar 10

[00:00:00] Chaz Wolfe: What if scaling your business to 2 billion meant walking the razor's edge of unstoppable growth and total collapse. My guest today, Chris Ball unpacks the strategies and brutal realities of what it took to build his financial firm to over 2 billion in AUM. [00:00:17] Grab your notebooks. Let's dive in. [00:00:19] You're how long have you been in Dubai? [00:00:22] Chris Ball: So I've been in Dubai, well, I've been in the Middle East since 2011. So I moved out here 31st of August, 2011. And then I knew I was in Abu Dhabi, which is actually the capital of the United Arab Emirates. And then I moved up to Dubai, during COVID in 2020. [00:00:40] Chaz Wolfe: Okay. And I know that you do business in, in several different countries. I'm sure we'll get to that, but, what, what about Dubai? What about the middle East, has kept you there for so long? [00:00:49] Chris Ball: So just a really good location, to be honest. I mean, being a Brit, I don't suffer the same, tax rules as you guys. So if I'm not resident, I don't get taxed. And obviously the Middle East is, well, [00:01:00] Dubai and the United Arab Emirates is 0 percent tax, so there is no income tax. They've just recently bought incorporation tax, but there is no income tax. [00:01:09] So it's very, very tax efficient to be based. It's safe. There's no, not hardly any crime that you would stumble across. You can leave your front door and your windows open all the time. I've got young children, so that works really well. And it's, you know, it's generally quite a nice place to live. [00:01:27] It's, the temperature is nice, much better than England. That's for sure. And yeah, it's just, it's, it's center of the world as well in terms of, you can get everywhere in one flight. So I can get over to the U S direct. I can get to Australia direct. I can get to Europe direct UK direct. So it's, it's good for transportation as well. [00:01:45] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. You know, I've said that. Easy about Kansas city. Like I'm right in the middle. I can get to all these places within just a quick flight. But all my locations were in the United States. Yours are all over the world. A little different there. You're, you're doing business though, all over the world. [00:01:58] Tell me, tell me, kind of [00:02:00] how that unfolded a little bit. I know you got this giant business and you've made a lot of moves and I want to ask you some questions about some of those things, but you know, you're, you know, if you can think back to before it was international. And then maybe the one catalyst that created this international, you know, management of funds and assets that you have now, what was that catalyst do you think? [00:02:19] Chris Ball: Yeah. So last year, so we started, the business in 2011 and it was predominantly to service people that were, you know, in this, so we started the business in 2018. I moved out here in 2011, but we. When I moved out in 2011 was predominantly servicing or looking after people that were in the same situation as me. [00:02:38] So lived in the UK and and had now moved to the Middle East. And surprisingly, there is a lot of people in, in that situation globally. And what they find is it's really difficult for them to deal with their wealth when they are local, local. Like if I'm in the, if I'm in the UAE as a Brit, I don't really want to leave all my money here. [00:02:58] I probably want to get more of my money back [00:03:00] home. But because I'm not resident, it's more difficult for me to manage back in the UK. So, you know, there becomes this need where you need advice, but you can't get it. And you know, that's why we decided really to lean into it. A lot of the people that were doing it prior to what we were doing were focused on big upfront commissions. [00:03:20] They take a big payment upfront and not a lot ongoing. And as you probably know, in the U S and in the UK, it's much more of a kind of an annualized or annuity, style of, style of fee that you would charge the client. So you wouldn't be commission based, you would be fee based, you would charge a percentage of the assets that you manage on a yearly basis. [00:03:38] And that means people's interests are aligned, you know, I'm not getting a big up front and I'll never speak to you again. My, you know, you're doing well, you're going to keep me gainfully employed as your advisor. My fee, you know, my fee is more because you're doing better. So, you know, it's much more of a, it's much better outcome. [00:03:56] I would say for clients to be managed that way. So that's, that's [00:04:00] the model that we decided to do. And because we were fairly new and fairly, we didn't have any legacy issues, a lot of people saw what we were doing and were like, wow, you know, actually that's, that works really well with me, clients and advisors. [00:04:14] Who'd been looking for, who'd been looking for that and maybe hadn't found it yet. So we was able to, you know, gathering number one, some great human capital in terms of the, in terms of the advisors and the support staff that we have. And then secondly, we was obviously attracting a lot of clients because they don't want to pay big upfront commissions to advisors and never to see them again. [00:04:36] They want to work with someone on a, on an ongoing basis on planning and. And work with qualified people in the jurisdictions they are. So, you know, we kind of grew it that way. [00:04:45] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, I love that. What do you think? Like, I mean, a lot of people think of a financial advisor and, and there's like a little bit of disdain, like a little bit of like, you know, maybe it's the, you know, up from commission and then they never talked to me again, or maybe it's just, you know, the person that I rarely talk [00:05:00] to, there's just all these kinds of different thoughts, you know, that aren't high quality, right around a financial advisor. [00:05:04] What, what's different about you guys? How do you guys kind of break through the noise of that? [00:05:08] Chris Ball: So a lot of it, I mean, like most service based business, it's relationship led. So if you have a great relationship, you know, you're my client and I have a great relationship with you, then actually the service normally comes before returns in the world that we invest in today. If you are an aggressive investor, you're going to be invested in a hundred percent equities, and I'm probably going to invest you in a mixture of global equity indexes. [00:05:33] So we're tracking the index. If the market goes up, you're going to go, if it goes down, you're going to go down. So it's not really down to me how well the underlying investments are performing. You know, you will struggle to beat the index over time. But what, what people don't do is they, you know, they don't communicate well, their clients, they don't speak to them. [00:05:52] They don't, have, you know, follow up things like their birthday or their wife or husband's birthday or their, you know, how their children are doing all these little [00:06:00] things that make a meaningful relationship. They just don't do. And that's what we try and install in the advisors is yes, people want. [00:06:08] Yeah, a good service or, they want, they want low fees and they want, you know, good returning portfolio. But what they're really buying is the relationship with you and with us as a business. And it's really trying to develop that. And, and that means you get, you know, long term sticky clients. [00:06:22] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, for sure. And you've done this for a long time and so I'm sure you've got some, maybe some hacks here on your client experience, but what, I mean, some of the things that you mentioned are great. What, what's the strategy around genuine relationships? I mean, a lot of people give the answer of relationships are sticky, right? [00:06:39] Relationships are every, people buy people, not necessarily the service and, and, and all those things are true, but there's like tactics inside of that. And of course, sending a birthday card. Okay. That's a tactic, but you know, what, yeah. What's the genuine piece for you? Because we're in 2024. People know if you're being someone that you're not, you know what I mean? [00:06:58] Chris Ball: Yeah. [00:07:00] Well, I mean, you've got number one, exactly that not be fake. You have to be real with the people that you're dealing with. You know, if I come on and start talking with an American accent to try and be the same as you, I'm going to sound pretty stupid. So you know, you obviously have to be real with the people that you're, that you're working with. [00:07:16] I find that genuinely remembering things about the, you know, if we've had a conversation and you said to me, Oh, I'm going on holiday. And then the next time I speak to ask about the holiday and I show a genuine interest, at least, you know, it's, it's those small subconscious things that build up relationships over time. [00:07:35] It's the small bits, it's the small things that matter. I find going to see people, obviously you and I are talking now over, you know, over the internet, but, and that's a great way to communicate and not everyone wants to see everyone all of the time. We can communicate like this couple of times a year, but maybe every other year, if I come and see you. [00:07:54] Face to face and I set you out for a lunch, which sounds a bit prehistoric now or dinner or meet your, [00:08:00] you know, meet your family, et cetera. That, that builds a, a relationship there. And I think that's what a lot of people forget about now. It's how many zoom calls or how many teams calls can I book in a day? [00:08:11] How much, you know, how much can I do over the internet, which is great, but you never get that same relationship as if I sit across, you know, across the dinner table view and, and have a chat about your life. [00:08:21] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. That's so true. We, we do the same kind of, concept or the, at least the promotion of, of in person stuff with, with our mastermind community gathering the Kings because we do a lot on zoom. I mean, we meet every week, every month, every quarter, you know, whatever, there's lots of going on in the community and that's good. [00:08:36] You know, you can, you can get to know people like this, but I remember, I remember several years ago, we did our first in person event and there was, you know, seven, eight, nine folks that had kind of launched with us, that first year and, and we had been doing zoom, you know, getting to know each other, talking about business, talking about family, all this stuff. [00:08:51] And then we, you know, six, seven months later, after we had launched, we got together for the first, first time in person and it was just another level. Now, have [00:09:00] you just, have you. Have you ever felt this feeling where you've been building a relationship with somebody like this on zoom or on the internet and you've gotten to know him pretty good but then when you see him it's the first time you've actually seen him or you know for me put my big bear paws around him give him a big hug that just is a totally different feeling because i know this person but i'm just meeting them for the first time in person you know what i mean you know that feeling [00:09:21] Chris Ball: Yeah, I know. I know. I know that feeling for sure. But I don't have that problem with a big bear paws because I'm about five foot seven. So, it's, it's deceiving. It's, you know, it's kind of, it's when you see someone and they're, and they're much bigger than you expected, much taller than you expected or much shorter than you expected, probably in my case. [00:09:36] So it's, it, it is nice. And, and do you know what you, once you've met someone, The next time you speak to them on the zoom call and the team's call, it feels you feel a lot more connected anyway. [00:09:48] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, that's a good, okay. So you've scaled, you've scaled your business from basically scratch to over 2 billion in assets under management. Give me, give me the roadmap. What were the, you know, one, two, three [00:10:00] things that allowed for that to happen? I mean, you're not, you're not a silver Fox, you know, you're not, you're not in your seventies and you've built this incredible financial business. [00:10:09] You've done it rather fast. What would have been in the building blocks [00:10:14] Chris Ball: Yeah, I think the building blocks initially were getting good people around me straight away. And I know again, that kind of sounds a bit cliche, but you know, outsourcing the things that I wasn't good at sooner rather than later was key to us being able to scale at pace. My background is. Yeah, so what, sorry, what was that? [00:10:35] Chaz Wolfe: for you, what were those things that you outsourced quickly? [00:10:38] Chris Ball: So I got in a marketing director pretty quick. Then I got in, an operations, director who then turned into be, my compliance director. I then got in, someone in my finance team. So I started building out all of the bits that I, I wasn't necessarily great with. And it was actually more around the support functions as opposed to the financial advice. [00:10:59] So my [00:11:00] background is I'm an accountant. I started my career at KPMG, so you know, I understood how business worked, which I think a lot of people don't. And I think a lot of people, when they first start trying to do too much for too long, and actually you're better to almost forward invest and try and bring some of those key hires. You know, further forward, I'm good at the sales bit. Maybe not so good at the operational bit. So therefore I'll focus on the sales and I'll bring someone into, to, to help me with the operations. And that's what enabled us to scale at a pace. Is it having, you know, five heads a better than one. [00:11:35] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, for sure. What do you think? I mean, finding incredible people, you know, several key positions like that didn't just happen in one little swoop or all at once, how long did that take you? What was the challenge in that? Yeah. [00:11:49] Chris Ball: So I got really lucky with the people that are like super, super lucky. And it was by pure fluke as well. It wasn't down to my, you know. My insane recruitment, abilities. So [00:12:00] Alan, he was leaving, he's my marketing director. He was leaving the job where he was at highly experienced. And I just kind of stumbled across him. [00:12:08] I was telling a recruiter, I'm looking for this kind of role. And did they know anyone is, ah, you should go meet this person by pure fluke. He'd happened to work in the same industry, had the experience that I was looking for, like it was kind of like a match made in heaven. Second guy, I knew him from another, another business and I knew him to be good and my finance director, the weirdest thing, someone I hadn't spoken to in 12 years said, reached out to me on Instagram and said, I've got someone who is wanting to move out to Dubai. [00:12:39] Would you mind meeting up with him? Had a chat with him. He was what we was looking for and he moved out. Like it was like, but then I've had some horrendous hires as well. So it's not, you know, it's not all sunshine and roses. But it was just pure fluke that these three really influential people in our business that helped us grow insanely quickly, you know, came, came around. [00:12:58] But then I think also that's kind of [00:13:00] putting it out there and, and. looking for these people, maybe just a bit before you're ready because you never know what comes along at different times. It's almost that kind of manifesting, isn't it? Where you, where you, where you say something in it and it, and it becomes true. [00:13:14] I [00:13:15] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. What would you say to the listener who, you know, maybe knows that they need to hire or knows that they want to grow, but doesn't feel like they can hire just, just the, you know, the situation that you were just describing where maybe they're a little head and they're a little nervous about that. [00:13:29] Like if I put it out, then if I find the right person and then, then I got to have to hire them. And then, what would you say to that, that person listening? [00:13:34] Chris Ball: don't know. It's a weird one because I work very well under pressure. So if I'm under pressure and I'm not comfortable, not coasting, I'll do better. So I feel that. Where you grow is kind of on that knife edge between completely uncomfortable, you know, and kind of, and go up complete disaster almost, you know, you, you've got, you've got to push yourself. [00:13:57] Obviously what you don't want to be doing is making [00:14:00] decisions that, that are kind of irreversible as well. So how I look at it is, and it was after I read something from Bezos and Bezos has a one way door and two way door. So one way door means you go for it and you can't come back. Two way door means you can go through it. [00:14:14] And you can come back. So a hire really is a two way door because, you know, if they're rubbish and it's not working after a month or two, you can always get rid and they can leave. So, you know, it's, it's realizing that these people don't necessarily have to be with you for the rest of your life. But that being said, you shouldn't hire willy nilly and you shouldn't, you know, just give people a go because ultimately your time and effort goes into them. [00:14:37] But if you feel it's right and you've done the due diligence on them and you know, it might be a bit of a stretch then, you know, sometimes a bit of pressure makes you go a bit harder and go a bit quicker. [00:14:48] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, I agree. And I think most entrepreneurs probably work that way. I think that, you know, the, the putting themselves out there, especially when it comes to the higher is they think of maybe like an annual salary when, you know, [00:15:00] at the end of the day, maybe it's only 90 days, you know, you said they can, it's a two way door. [00:15:03] I love that description too. What other, what are the two way doors are there? And as you've been building, give me some other examples of, of that. I think that's a really great description. [00:15:11] Chris Ball: Two way doors. I mean, look, we're in a service based business, so a lot of the two way doors are down to hires. We also experimented with technology a lot as well. Obviously, technology, you know, encompasses all of our lives way, way more than it did when, you know, when I started my career back in 2004. [00:15:31] Now, unless you have a, you're able to see your Investments real time on your phone, your, you know, you're not even in the game, you know, it's like, you know, you have to be able to give people information quickly and people want to make decisions like, you know, someone will be watching your podcast now sat at home on the sofa in their pants. [00:15:51] You know, it's kind of like that's how people want to consume things. They don't want to be sat in their suit in front of a bank manager talking about their [00:16:00] finances. So we, we invested heavily into technology because, you know, I'm, as you said, I'm not a silver fox yet. And ultimately we, we saw that was the way that the, that the world was going. [00:16:11] So that enabled us to scale faster as well. Now it's a big commitment in terms of cash, but again, if it's not working, I can always not do it, we can always shelve it or get rid of it. We don't have to keep doing it. So that, that was something that we invested heavily into. And I, and I think that, you know, the rewards for that as a, as a business have been really good. [00:16:30] And it's given us this kind of bites that we can build off really nicely now, the platform. [00:16:38] Hey Kings and Queens, Chaz Wolf. I want to talk to you about something that's super important to me. We put a lot of time and effort, we meaning myself and my team into this podcast, into the content that goes out every single day. And if you have been getting any sort of value or insight from this, we want it to be able to reach other business owners too. [00:16:56] So we would love if you would like comment, share, [00:17:00] leave a review, post, share again, all of the things. On social media, on all the different platforms, or even on the podcast mediums of Apple and Spotify. We would love to be able to get our content into more hands, more entrepreneurs, so they can grow their business as quick as possible. [00:17:15] Together, we are building a community of like minded entrepreneurs who are committed to growing their businesses to new heights. So let's do this. Let's help each other grow. [00:17:25] Chaz Wolfe: What do you think technology? I mean, I love that because you guys, you know, you kind of talk about, I think you have a tagline where, your firm is where technology meets tradition. Is it, is that kind of like a tagline of your guys? What does that mean? Tradition meeting technology for you? How does that look as I, I would experience it inside of your organization as a, as a client, [00:17:44] Chris Ball: I mean, one of my frustrations, I don't know about you is if, if I deal with a, if I deal with, let's say a FinTech business. And I've got a problem. There's only some like chat function that I can talk to someone that's a robot. And then I've got to request an agent and then the agent might not get back to me for two hours and they probably know what they're [00:18:00] talking about. [00:18:00] So it's, it's, it's enabling advisors through technology. Now I do believe that with, you know, the development of AI and also with the development of, of, investment platforms and as people. You know, we kind of get out of this boomer phase and we're into, you know, millennials and, and, and, you know, people are, people are becoming more savvy with technology that we will move from people that want to speak to someone, to someone that purely wants to deal with, with, with an application, but we're not there yet. [00:18:35] And especially when you're, you know, if you're dealing with, I don't know, 000 and just making a random investment on Robin Hood or something like that, then okay, you probably don't need to speak to someone, but when you're dealing with a couple of million dollars that you've put away in your 401k, you want to see the whites of someone's eyes and actually that you want them to tell you that it's going to be okay and that what you're doing is good. [00:18:56] And I've got this. Don't worry. But you still need that. Or a lot of [00:19:00] people do still need that. So we try and blend it. We try and give you all of your information available on, using technology, try and make it seamless for you in terms of your experience. But there's always someone to talk via over a video call or be it face to face or over the telephone, whatever way people like to communicate. [00:19:18] So you don't lose that personal touch. You still feel like there's someone at, at the end of the, at the end of the line, which I think a lot of technology businesses or pure technology businesses miss. And when you're dealing with people's wealth, it's, it's, it's, it's an important part. [00:19:33] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. I mean, if you're talking about, you know, the demographics of your clients, my guess would be that they're, that they're older because that's, that's when you have, you know, a couple million dollars to, to invest. And so, yeah, you've got to cater to. To a, a boomer generation, you're going to have to do that longer than, you know, other, other companies that are servicing, you know, millennials or even, even younger generations. [00:19:56] What is an example of one of the closed doors that you've gone [00:20:00] through that you couldn't go back on? [00:20:02] Chris Ball: They normally regulatory. Closed doors. So it's like, you know, if you do something that is not, I know you, you do something that you're not meant to from a reg in, in a regulatory capacity, then that's normally a one way door. You're not coming back out of that. You can't just back out of it. You've, you've done what you're not meant to do. [00:20:22] So that's kind of stuff that you have to be super careful with and think, [00:20:25] Chaz Wolfe: All the way [00:20:26] Chris Ball: you know, think about, over the, over the longer run, cause it is very, very hard to get out of those things. And. It's time, it's energy, it's, it's, it's, you know, number one, you always want to try and do the right thing anyway. [00:20:39] But you have to be super careful when you're dealing with global regulators. [00:20:43] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. That's understandable. What, just kind of on that, on that vein of, of giving a description of a, of a closed door or a one way door, what's been just a challenge that you guys have had through the scaling process. I mean, I know you said you had some bad hires and stuff, but you go from zero to 2. 1 billion in assets. [00:20:59] That's like [00:21:00] hockey stick type growth. And so there's a lot of challenges that come with growth, no matter what they often don't get spoken about. What's the first thing that comes to your mind as far as like, Ooh, that's [00:21:09] Chris Ball: I think, I think recruitment is one of them that, that I think that's, that is the hardest thing. And, and I used to think as well, culture. So I used to think culture was this kind of fluffy word that, you know, I didn't really, you know, I didn't really buy into, I've seen, I soon found out how a negative culture can impact your business. [00:21:30] And, and you know, a lot of, when you scale quickly, it's very easy to give people a go. So I've got to hire people in quick. So my recruitment process will be quick to cater for that. Whereas. Actually, what you want to do is, is take the best person that you can get for that role, because ultimately what happens, you give someone a go. [00:21:52] They're 50 percent right. They may do well. They may not do well more times than not. If they're 50 [00:22:00] percent right, then 100 percent not right. And therefore you put time and energy into training them, bringing them through. And their expectations don't align with yours. And then they go, they've been there for six months or whatever. [00:22:11] It doesn't work out and they're gone. And then you have to start that process again, double the effort because you've got to train two people now in instead of getting it right the first time. So that, that, that was something. And then also, you know, the, the, the culture piece. Really aligning and setting out our values at the start is something I wish I'd done like what's really important to me and you know, I know that I'm, I like people that are hardworking. [00:22:36] This isn't a nine to five environment. It's not flexi time. I like people in the office. I like, I like people that have got a growth mindset. And I have no time for people who play political games, egos, all of that kind of stuff. I wish I communicated that to everyone from the start and actually the people that I talked about that hired initially really lucky because they were all three, but then other people that I've hired have been one of, [00:23:00] you know, at least one, maybe two of those or don't hit the box on two of those three. [00:23:05] So that that was important, but that was more my fault because I wasn't communicating what I wanted at the start. So I was trying to sell to them. Why it was a good place to work as opposed to being brutally honest and then going, hell, yeah, I want to work for you instead of going, you know, instead of me trying to not pull the wood over their eyes, but, you know, yeah, we can do this. [00:23:27] We can be accommodating there. And, you know, no, no, no, no. It's like, this is the way we do things. This is the culture that we have. You either will shine on that https: otter. ai They've been some challenges that I've had to face and grow up with as we've got bigger. [00:23:45] Chaz Wolfe: Hiring, you know, outside or sorry, inside salespeople. And you know, the requirement was to dial 150, 200, 300 calls a day. And and it's like, You assume that when you interview for a position like that, but if you don't say that, [00:24:00] and again, you're trying to, you know, kind of butter it up, make it look like a great opportunity. [00:24:04] And it could be an amazing opportunity for the right individuals. And, and so if I'm not honest about like, Hey dude, like you're going to come in early, you're going to stay late. You're going to work. You know, you're going to, you're going to doubt 300 plus times a day. You're going to be absolutely obsessed with making phone calls and, and setting up appointments and closing deals. [00:24:20] And that's the only way that this looks like an amazing opportunity. And, what do you think about that? You know, what do you think about, basically, you know, living on the phone and, and being just crushed if you don't, you know, like you're going to not get what you want. And like you said, kind of painting that not like in a wrong picture, like a. [00:24:37] Like trying to make them say no, but kind of, you know, like I want to show you all the goods and all the bads. In fact, I want to really, really harp on all the bads of the job. And if you still want it, then we're probably going to be good for a long, long time. You want to give like a specific example of something that you've said in an interview? [00:24:52] Chris Ball: now that I say to people, is that the main one is, is that look, if you're going to be running a door at half a and you're going to be expecting to leave at half [00:25:00] five, like this isn't the job for you, this isn't the company we, you know, I was, I've been in here since 6 30 this morning. It's 6 30 at night. [00:25:06] I've got a couple of calls off to you. You know, we're going to 8, 8 39 o'clock most nights. So it is pretty hard, you know, it is hard working and it is demanding. And if flexibility is key, then it's, you know, it's not for you. We, we also have a marketing team as well, where we expect them to make a certain amount of outbound dollars a day from, from the leads and the coming, and. [00:25:29] You know, ultimately again, their expectations, if you, if you're thinking you're going to make 50 to 60 a day, it's not going to cut it, you know, it's 150 plus same as you. So, you know, that's, what's expected and we're expecting you to prospect as well. So for the advisors, it's, we're not going to give you a load of clients and they just land on your lap, you've got to go out and get these clients and this is how you're going to have to do it. [00:25:51] Are you up for that or not? Cause if you're not up for it, this isn't, you know, this isn't the right opportunity for you. And some people, you know, some, some people now. I've [00:26:00] become a lot more vocal with that on LinkedIn, because what I want is for people to look at LinkedIn and go, well, I don't really like that guy or actually, you know, the one that goes, wow, that's, I really want to do that. [00:26:13] That sounds really good. Exactly. Like you said, it's the, you're not trying to scare people away, but you're just being brutally honest. And you'll get that diamond that what that does want to work for you. This game changing the others. You would never going to be working. The others of you were never going to be suited to anyway. [00:26:31] So it's, it's also super nice to hear that other people have the same problems as well. [00:26:35] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. Well, I think, I think, you know, the, the sales are outbound. Very specific. I mean, there, there can be other support roles that, you know, maybe aren't as, as demanding, but you just can't, you, especially as a young professional, you can't expect to come into a role like that where you're outbound, you're making phone calls, you're responding to leads, prospecting on your own to find your own leads. [00:26:55] Like that just takes a certain gumption and, and some cojones to, to like [00:27:00] really just Go after it. And I just have never seen it really work for, for folks that don't have that. And that's okay. Like there's other roles. I mean, we use the predictive index, you know, a hiring assessment, you know, to, to really help us, you know, assess and make sure people are in the right seat and all the fun stuff. [00:27:16] We, you know, do that with all of our members, but so I've seen lots of different personalities do well in that type of environment, but you still have to have some immense drive. Because it's not like, you know, you're a slave driver, Chris, it's like. This is just what it takes to be successful in this industry. [00:27:32] And so let's just, let's just talk about what it's going to take. And if it, and if that doesn't work, that's okay. Go find something else that's different. But if you would be wasting your time, you'd be wasting my time. If we did it not like this recipe, you know what I mean? [00:27:46] Chris Ball: definitely. A hundred percent. And that's it. I think it's, that's the point, isn't it? It's, it's not just not fair on you. It's not fair on them. If you're not being upfront and honest with what it actually takes at the start, because it is wasting their time. You know, [00:28:00] it could be six months of their life that they aren't enjoying what they're doing because, because they, you know, they, they, they thought it was slightly different. [00:28:07] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. And there's, there's certain people who will, it's so funny. I've seen this happen. They'll try to convince themselves. Like, so as a, as a person, you know, interviewing at your company and I'm excited about the opportunity, I'm excited about maybe making a certain amount of money. I'm excited about the prestige of working with your firm. [00:28:22] Like there's a lot of reasons why I've like already, I have a, I have a, I have a bias towards wanting to work for you. I'm drawn to something and I'll overlook. The fact that I've got to come in early, stay late, or make a lot of phone calls or whatever the requirements are. But if the person in front of me, you is going, Hey chat. [00:28:42] So like, I know that, you know, this is an outbound salesperson, but man, this is hard and it's not for everybody. We make hundreds of phone calls every single day. And, and you got to make, you got to get your own leads and you got to come early. You got to stay late. And Hey, I saw on here that you've got a young family. [00:28:57] Is staying until nine PM really the best [00:29:00] for you? Like almost again, trying to convince them otherwise. And, and then really what they'll do is they'll actually think about it and go, actually, you know what? That's not the best fit for me. Thank goodness. We figured that out here and not just this cognitive bias of no, no, no, that's fine. [00:29:13] I'll, I'll work it out. Three months later, they're like, I can't do this. You know, that's just a waste of time. Like you're saying, speaking of just like scale and growth and change, you moved, we've already talked about this, you know, from the UK to Dubai and, and you brought your family with you during that process. [00:29:31] And so, [00:29:31] Chris Ball: I was single actually at the time. [00:29:33] Chaz Wolfe: Okay. Okay. And so I I've, I've, I've read about this transition, you know, with your family. Is that maybe just, you started having the family in Dubai? [00:29:41] Chris Ball: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. That, that'd be that. [00:29:44] Chaz Wolfe: So let's talk about just this, this family dynamic then obviously you're building this, this huge company, this very fast scaling. You, you're there a lot. What does that look like for the family dynamic in the midst of all that? Yeah, [00:29:55] Chris Ball: Yeah. I mean, it's tough getting that balance, right. Is, is, is [00:30:00] difficult. But I think it, that comes with your partner and them getting what you do. So, you know, like the glue that holds my family together is my wife. You know, my wife doesn't work. And she is a hundred percent there for our children all the time. [00:30:18] Had she wanted to, you know, go and often do things on our own. We probably would, you know, probably wouldn't have had kids. It would have been, you know, it had been different, but she has always been super, super, super supportive. And that, you know, that's it. It's like, if she wouldn't enable me to do what I do, then I would, you know, I wouldn't be able to do it. [00:30:36] If I had someone that was making my life a misery at home because I was working late, I probably wouldn't work as late. But the fact is that she's supportive and, you know, again, I'll rock in tonight, you know, 8 30 ish. I'll have some dinner. I'll say I'm knackered. I want to go to bed. So I get up super early. [00:30:52] She's not sitting there, you know, huffing and moaning and she might make a small comment every now and again. No one's perfect, but, but, you know, she's got my back [00:31:00] and she understands that why we're doing this is not just for me. It's for our family and, you know, and gets that part of it. But having a supportive partner is not to be underestimated. [00:31:16] You know, and that, and that's been, that's been the key. I wish I was at home more sometimes. But I really like what I do. So I do find it tough. To, to turn off. Like I imagine most people do when they're, you know, really in tune with their business and they, and they love what they do as well. [00:31:31] It's hard to hit that off switch. You're on, you're on with it the whole time. But yeah, I've, I've got three kids. I've got twins at 12. I've got a seven year old when I'm with them. I try and spend quality time. I don't, you know, I'm not sat there on my phone when I'm watching them play football or, you know, if we go and do something, I'm not, you know, trying to, you know. [00:31:50] Not, you know, kind of fobbing them off or just sat at home watching TV. You know, I want to, I want to spend time with them when I'm there. So that's what we try and do when, when I'm around. But yeah, I definitely could be [00:32:00] around more, but it's, it's, it's a lifestyle choice though, at the end of the day, isn't it? [00:32:03] You know, it's, I think it's very difficult to, to have both. And so those people that can do it, my, my hats are off and, and kudos to them. You know. [00:32:11] Chaz Wolfe: I think, I think you actually gave, gave a great description of not necessarily, it's never equal in, it's never weighted equally in time. As an entrepreneur, I'm always going to spend more time in the business in comparison to time with my wife or time with my kids or time at the gym or time sleeping and probably the sleeping probably is the number two, you know? [00:32:35] And so. And that's okay. I think that's where people kind of misunderstand the, you know, quote unquote balance. It's like, well, the balance never actually existed. What you said was when I'm with my kids, I'm super intentional when I'm with my wife, I'm intentional. And so, I think that that's actually probably the better description. [00:32:51] And. You know, like the little comments. It's like, okay, cool. Like time for me to pay a little closer attention, right? It's not necessarily always more time. You know, that's [00:33:00] the quality of the time that is, that is, you know, in the equation, right? And, and you would probably say the same thing about your business. [00:33:05] If you were just at the office, but weren't really doing work related things. How could the business be successful and, and, and growing, right? Like you're, you're there and you're all in, you're obsessed, you're focused. So why not be like that, over the top obsessed with your wife or with your kids or with your health or all the other things that we can, we can press into. [00:33:27] You know what I mean? [00:33:29] Chris Ball: hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's exactly that you hit the nail on the head there. It's about being present and making sure that you spend the quality of time when you're there. Not just, you know, not, not, not being intentional. I think that's a, I think that's a great way to put it. What [00:33:44] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. You, you have several, pieces out that, that talk about. Just like the traits of good business people and obviously you have your business people are financial advisors and you have a lot of them and you're I'm sure training them up and these traits, but what are some good business people traits that you [00:34:00] that you're aware of? [00:34:00] Chris Ball: I normally find is discipline. It's easy to be great when the going's good. It's not easy to be great when the going is tough. And that's where a lot of people fold and fail. I normally find super successful people are super disciplined with what they do. And normally what I find, especially what we do is, is that they are disciplined, in all aspects of their life. [00:34:24] So, you know, good test for me normally with financial advisors is. If they have played sports to a high level, they normally have the discipline because they, you know, they've, they used to train, they're used to doing things when they don't necessarily want to do them. They're used to putting in the hours, they get it. [00:34:41] The, you know, if they go to the gym and they look after themselves, if they eat right, you know, all of those things are a discipline and they all factor into, you know, success. You know, personally, personally and, and free business. So discipline is, is one of the main things I think that makes people [00:35:00] successful. [00:35:00] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, what? And so you kind of gave us a slight definition there. I want to press on that a little bit, you know, so discipline to you is the ability to keep going. When the, when the, when the thing's not easy anymore or to do the hard things and it sounded like to, to, to be willing to do things that maybe other people aren't, you know, to train at a high level, to, you know, to practice more than others. [00:35:22] Like anything else you want to add there for the listener around, like, what does discipline mean to Chris? [00:35:25] Chris Ball: Yeah. I mean, discipline to me is, is sacrifice as well. There's, like I said, there's going to be times when things are, are easy and it's the times when you don't want to give anything and you eek out maybe 70 percent or 80%. If you're 100 percent going to 110 percent is a 10 percent gain. If you don't want to do anything and you don't do anything, that's 0 percent versus if you crank out 70 or 80%, then, you know, you've, you've made a 70 or 80 percent gain and doing that over time really makes a difference. [00:35:58] What one of the things that [00:36:00] I did was, and I'm not saying people should do this, but I, it. It really excelled my business and it excelled me was I gave up alcohol. So I stopped drinking alcohol from, from the 1st of, no, from the 1st of January, 2019 until probably August of 2020. So it was, it was for a sustained period of time and what it did was yes. [00:36:25] You, yes, you know, obviously there's the clear health benefits of not drinking great, but what it did was I was on it all day, every day. I didn't wake up with a hangover. I didn't wake up feeling groggy and not wanting to do stuff. I was on it for over a year and a half, every single day, not necessarily working, but my mind was on it. [00:36:45] You know, there wasn't, I wasn't waking up feeling groggy. I was, I was looking forward to going to the office on Monday rather than, Oh, I wish I could just stay in bed. you know, like all of those things over, over, over a longer period of time, like a year and a half really starts to stack [00:37:00] up. And that, that had a real sustained impact on me and on my business. [00:37:04] I do have a couple of beers every now and again. But very, very rarely will I get, will I get drunk? And I, I find that that really helps again with my, my focus now for a lot of people that's tough because a lot of people drink socially and they enjoy it and, and I get it, it's fun and all the rest of this stuff, but. [00:37:20] It's, it's making sacrifices like that over the longer run, even if it's something that you like doing, but you know, is bad for you. Like, is there so many different examples of it that, that people, that, that I feel people struggle with and that hinders their success over time. [00:37:37] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. It's, I mean, it's, it's self sabotage ultimately, right? If, if we're consciously choosing something that doesn't serve us, there's no other insertion other than self sabotage, right? Because you actually gave the, the, the back side of it. It's when, when I didn't have it, I was on every day. Holy smokes. [00:37:57] And so now, now when Chris [00:38:00] is presented with an alcoholic drink, he thinks. Do I want to be on tomorrow or do I not want to be on tomorrow? [00:38:06] Chris Ball: It's a hundred percent. [00:38:07] Chaz Wolfe: I want to be on tomorrow. So no, thanks. You know, I was just at a Christmas party for one of our companies just a couple of days ago. And one of the wives of folks that were there, we were kind of joking and she's, we had some cookies there and she's like, Oh man, I just love chocolate chip cookies. [00:38:21] And I was like, Oh man, I used to really, I mean, I still love them, but I haven't eaten them in about a year and a half. I don't, I haven't eaten sugar in about a year and a half, almost two years. And, she was like, Oh my goodness. Like, I was like, yeah, you know, I just, you know, I didn't, I just figured it didn't serve me anymore. [00:38:37] And she was like, wow, that's really good. It definitely serves me. It brings me happiness. I was like, okay, well, that's great. You know, I, I think I got happiness from chocolate chip cookies too. I was like, can I ask you a question? She was like, sure. I was like. Do you get happiness or can you get happiness from any other place in life? [00:38:55] Well, yeah, of course. Okay, good. So, so what we've now figured out is that [00:39:00] you're choosing this happiness, but you can, it's not like the, it's the only place in life to get happiness. You can be happy without chocolate cookies, right? Yes. Okay, great. So now the next level down in the decision making is, I'm choosing this particular happiness. [00:39:13] What also am I choosing sugar, diabetes, potential cancer? Like let's go down the list and be actually honest. Right? And so are you choosing those things also? And she was like, well, when you say it like that, why, why aren't we saying it like that? Isn't that just me? So using the alcohol as the example, it's like, do I want to be on tomorrow? [00:39:35] Do I want to have a better business? Do I want to have a better marriage? Do I want to be a better dad? Is this going to help me do that? Probably not. You know what I mean? It's pretty easy to be disciplined. I mean, with this all ties back to discipline. When you can think through a filter of does it serve me or or is gonna help me get what I want, right? [00:39:53] If I if I've clearly defined what I want, right, if I wanna have a big business or if I wanna have a great marriage or whatever, I've defined what those things are. [00:40:00] Then I just the thing that's in front of me, whatever it is, work late, bring my wife flowers. Drink alcohol with fill in the blank with whatever task it is that you're gonna you're thinking about Does it help me get there if it does do it all the way like obsessively don't just bring flowers bring four dozen, you know Bring balloons and the whole deal right or if it doesn't do it like it's not even a question. [00:40:24] I just don't do it Right. Like what, what, what are your thoughts on that? [00:40:29] Chris Ball: Yeah. No, I, I, I really like that. I think it's, I think it's, I think it's very, very true. It's true about a lot of things, isn't it? I was actually reading a, a article the other day by Tim Ferris, and he was saying about going through your diary and your weekly meetings and looking at the things that gave you in that week energy and doing, doing more of that, look at the things that were sucking your energy, put them in one column, look at the things that were. [00:40:57] Giving you energy and put them in another column, do [00:41:00] more of the things that are giving you energy, do more, like you said, obsessively do it, you know, get more out of it and try and cut off the things that some things need to be done. We can't get away from doing certain things, but do less of it or outsource it if you can be, you know, be, be great. [00:41:14] And I think that's another, another key of really successful people is they double down on the bits that they only, they can do, and they have the biggest impact on. And, you know, ultimately, like you said that bring your happiness and, enable you to, you know, enable you to be the best version of you without being, you know, I kind of caveat that with, you know, if things were in your diary, like you're having an affair and that's been, you know, like you said, there's two sides to the things that, you know, but. [00:41:41] It, it is got a, it is gotta be ethical as well, but, but yeah, it's, it's a very, very interesting concept. [00:41:47] Chaz Wolfe: Well, Chris, you've got just an incredible business. Where can the listener, where can the listener connect with you at one, if they want to invest and, and, and, maybe partake in some of your guys strategies, but two, if they want to connect with you as an entrepreneur, gets to know you better, that type of [00:42:00] thing, where can they find you? [00:42:00] Where can they follow you? [00:42:02] Chris Ball: Yep. So I'm pretty active on LinkedIn, so if you type Chris Ball, Hoxton Wealth, in the search bar, then it'll come up and that, that will be me hopefully recognize my face. And if you wanna view our look at our company's website, it's hoxton wealth.com. If you're us listeners, it's hoxton wealth usa.com. [00:42:18] You can just go on to the main website and scroll down, but yeah, that's it. It's been really good. And I really appreciate you having me on it and taking the time to speak with me. [00:42:26] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, absolutely. Chris, we'll put all that in the show notes as well. Blessings to you, your family, your entire organization. You're, you guys are crushing it. And, and I hope that, Dubai continues to serve you well and, enjoy your evening, man. Thanks for being here. [00:42:38] Chris Ball: Me too. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. [00:42:40] Thank you for listening to driven to win. I hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away. More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be successful than just being by yourself, doing it all on your own, carrying the weight all by yourself. [00:42:57] What I have realized, not only in my own journey [00:43:00] from multiple businesses and multiple different industries, and now interviewing over two or 300. Other very successful seven, eight and nine figure business owners is that it's tough to do it alone. And so gathering the Kings exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs. [00:43:15] In fact, we are putting together 1000 Kings specifically who are grateful, but not done. We're intentionally assembling Kings who fight tooth and nail for their business, family, and communities. And here's what we believe that in the pursuit of excellence in those areas. That it ignites within us the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy. [00:43:39] So if that relates and resonates with you and you know that you need people around you, sharp, qualified, other very successful business owners, I want you to go to gathering the kings.com. I want you to take a look at what we're doing and see if it makes sense for you to be part of our pursuit to 1000 Kings Talk [00:44:00] soon.

In this episode of Driven To Win, Chaz Wolfe sits down with Chris Ball, founder of Hoxton Capital Management, to unpack the strategies and hard lessons behind scaling a financial firm to $2 billion in assets under management. Chris shares how he built an international powerhouse, the key hires that made it happen, and the mindset shifts that separate top performers from the rest. If you’re an entrepreneur looking to scale fast and sustainably, this one’s for you.

Chris Ball:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisballhx

Website: www.hoxtoncapital.com

Chaz Wolfe:
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