503 | How to Grow Your Business Faster by Giving More

Mar 17

[00:00:00] Chaz Wolfe: Is it the nice guy or the cutthroat hustler that wins in business? Neither. And my next guest, Mo Bunnell, is here to shatter that way of thinking and give you the real key to growing your business. Generosity. Grab your pens, let's dive in.

[00:00:14] Mo you've got just an incredible history of success and, and obviously, you know, Jeff. You know, spoke highly of you as well. That's why, that's why he recommended you, but I want to know if, if you had to, you know, kind of big question to start off with, if you had to just summarize maybe in one sentence or two, your greatest success, what would that be?

[00:00:35] Mo Bunnell: is a great question. I, I think I would. I would shift it from, like, outcomes I've thought about. You know, obviously, I think of my daughters, I think of 30 years of marriage, I think of building a, an enduring business, I think of stuff like that. But I think I would say it's a little different.

[00:00:52] See what you think of this. I would say generosity. Is there is the master key to unlock whatever you want?

[00:00:59] Chaz Wolfe: [00:01:00] Oh, tell me more. Cause we are on the same page

[00:01:03] Mo Bunnell: Yeah, I think it's more other than like some specific outcome like You know winning a sports tournament in italy for worlds for ultimate frisbee or whatever things like that are cool But I think more it's the day to day moments of leaning in falling in love with somebody's problem Being able to see them and, and share that back to them to see if it's right.

[00:01:27] Have them say, that's it. Offer something that's helpful and do that over and over and over in every moment of life. I just feel like that's, that's the thing I'm most proud of.

[00:01:41] Chaz Wolfe: I can see and how you attach that, you know, to generosity of, you know, giving in those moments kind of, no matter what the outcome, you know, like you're saying is knowing that those, those outcomes kind of almost determine themselves. Has that been your experience where just, you know, the attitude of give, give, give, and the rest kind of figures itself [00:02:00] out.

[00:02:00] Mo Bunnell: Yeah, in the, you know, there's a lot of nuance there, like how you give is important. If you give too much and too often, you can burn out, you can get burned, all kinds of other stuff. There's a way to give that works, but can I share a story that like, yeah, just you're, you have such great questions. Like it's actually prompting some memories I haven't thought of in a really long time.

[00:02:17] We were on a call maybe like five years ago, so we've had, Binal Idea Group's been in existence about 20 years, so like 15 years in. Like five years ago we were on a call and we were catching up with somebody that was like a CMO of this huge company. And he had been, he had been a CMO at a fortune five company.

[00:02:35] You know, if you get the numbers too small, you know who it is. So we'll just leave it at five.

[00:02:39] Chaz Wolfe: That's right.

[00:02:40] Mo Bunnell: And we had done a ton of work there. We had trained hundreds and hundreds of their people, relationship skills that, that bring in business. Let's call it business development skills. And he got caught up in a reduction in force.

[00:02:52] And lost his job and it was completely out of nowhere and I really liked him. And anyway, he asked for a [00:03:00] call and I was like, trying to, in the, in just the example we're talking about, I was trying to think of any way I could to be helpful to him and 1 of and I connected him with several people. I was looking out for job opportunities.

[00:03:13] I had him come through a public version of our three day class. He had already gone through it at his company, but I said, Hey, come through. It's on me. There's no charge. Save you thousands of 5, 000, whatever it is at the time. And but I want you to come through the lens of job search because you'll think about things differently when you're practicing the skills.

[00:03:30] He came through that. So anyway, that was, that was a long before. So we have this call five years ago. We're catching up with him. It had been, it had been years since we had caught up. And we just sort of chit chatted. We talked about some ways that we could be helpful to their organization, things like that.

[00:03:43] And near the end, you can see he was hesitating because I had an account manager in the call. So there's 3 of us sort of there was a 3rd party. He had just met then and he'd almost tell, like, he wanted to share something, but he didn't. Didn't quite know if he should, and he just did. He said, Mo, hey, I know we got so and so [00:04:00] here, I just, but I just feel I need to share something personally.

[00:04:03] And he starts tearing up. And Chaz, he says, when I went through a tough patch years ago, I still remember how you treated me. I remember all the things you did to be helpful to me. And he's like, none of the connections you made actually turned into a job, but they helped me keep going. And he's like, and he like looks in the camera and he says, I will never forget it.

[00:04:29] And Chaz, like, that, that was like one of those, maybe that was an outcome moment, maybe it was in the middle moment, I don't know what moment it was, but it was a freaking moment. And I liked it. And I'm like, I want more of that. And anyway, I think, well, that, that will result, that will result in a lot of commercial activity on our part.

[00:04:48] But it, that didn't matter to me. It was like, I had actually forgotten I had helped him. And here was a person that I'd significantly helped. It came back around, and I just feel like if we do that over and [00:05:00] over and over again in our life, really good things happen for everybody.

[00:05:04] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. I hope the listener is paying attention. This is like one of those, you know, like we know this, right? It's, it's probably not the first time that they're hearing this principle of, you know, give first, you know, and, and kind of like the rest figures itself out, but, but it's so true. As you were sharing that story, kind of an old story that it kind of prompted me.

[00:05:20] And so I'll share mine as well, just real quickly. But. We first year of our construction company, just a few years ago. You know, we, we were closing a deal and my, the, the guy that was closing the deal kind of asked some more questions after, you know, closing the opportunity to, I think it was a remodeling of a basement and and they were like, Oh yeah, no you're one of the owners, Chaz we, we met him like 15 years ago at this business thing.

[00:05:42] And I, I owned other businesses and just the way that he conducted himself was just absolutely like just professional. And I knew that I could trust him and, and I, I don't know, I don't. I don't think he knows me, but, but I know him and and that's why we went with you guys. And, and he, so he told me this a couple of days later, I was like, I'm sorry, what, who is it?

[00:05:59] You know, like I [00:06:00] had no idea who the person was, but when, but you're right, when you hold, hold yourself or conduct business in a way or relationships in a way that it's not like, okay, I've got to give today because I'm trying to get something. This is just who we are. Right. And, and when you, I guess my question to you in that mo is.

[00:06:17] What's the lever that someone right now listening is going like, okay, I want to aspire to be like you Moe in that way. I don't know if it naturally comes out of me like that right now. How do I, how do I, what lever do I pull to grow in that or what muscle am I trying to develop there?

[00:06:32] Mo Bunnell: Yeah, well, I'll, I'll give you a 2 part answer. So science and then step science. There's some incredible, incredible, incredible research that came out of Penn. That found that strategic givers, what the researchers called successful givers, but strategic givers were the most successful in life. So there's 3 buckets, givers, takers, matchers, givers, givers, the most successful, but oddly, the research found.

[00:06:57] A chunk of the givers were the most successful, but a [00:07:00] chunk of the givers were the least successful. Literally, like the best and the worst. And then givers and, or excuse me, takers and matchers in the middle, in the way, in the order you'd expect. The nuance here is the successful givers, what we call strategic givers, are people that do two things.

[00:07:17] This gets to the steps. You know what to say yes to and what to say no to when you give. And then if you go down the yes path, you dial the, the, the amount that you're going to give up relative to how much it might pay off for you, how much you think it would pay off for you. So, I'm an actuary from a former life.

[00:07:37] I think in terms of probabilities and math a lot, love the maths. So, in my mind, I see little expected value equations. And it's, and so whenever I give. Hey, I just feel philosophically like we've talked. It's the right thing to do, but it's not running in a field throwing daisy pedals. It's like, you want to give in a way that strategic strategic giver.

[00:07:59] So if [00:08:00] we got to say, who should we meet with? Who should we not? Who should we invest in? Who should we not? And then if we are investing, if if somebody calls on us from a college or a university, they say, hey, can I pick your brain for half a day? Let's go golfing. I'd love to hear about how you build a business.

[00:08:15] Well, I might want to dial that 1 down to 10 minutes. Like, I want to help. It's not gonna be on the other hand. If I've got an organization that could spend millions of dollars with us. I might dial up that gift to be, Hey, why don't I fly to New York and let's spend a half day mapping out what we might be able to do together globally over the next five years.

[00:08:32] Okay, that's worth, that's worth 10 hours of gifts. So yes or no. And then once I'm yes, is it 10 minutes? Is it 10 hours? Is it something in between? And there are no strings attached. That's really critical around the research. You can't, you can't expect something. There's no tit for tat in this. You have to give with no strings attached.

[00:08:50] Okay. But we're going to do it based on the expected value of what we think we can achieve. And I'll just wrap with this, like, that's a muscle. Like we can learn those things. We can learn to say, [00:09:00] no, we can learn to say yes. We can learn to, to figure out how much we're going to invest and then do so with with our full heart and all of our attention.

[00:09:08] Chaz Wolfe: I think that the, this, I mean, the, the strategy of, of determining yes or no, and then if it's yes, how much basically can be applied to all areas of life and, and the, so the kind of the right next to business is always family, right? Cause a lot of times the same conversation, you know, gets brought up around.

[00:09:25] You know, people, and it's like, man, you know, I've talked to many entrepreneurs that, that, that they've got family members that they love, but they've outgrown them or that, that there's just not, there's a strain there because this entrepreneur is, is growing and developing and maybe changing the muscle and recognizing what you just said that. There's buckets here and, and and I, and I only have so much time and I've got to strategically say yes and no. And so what would you say from using that same framework, but how does that apply, you know, to family or how have you used it specifically to maybe apply it to family?

[00:09:59] Mo Bunnell: Wow. [00:10:00] Now we're into, well, now we're into like, this is a scary place. Because yeah, yeah. Let's stay in the philosophical realm in business. No, I mean, I think we've, well, let me just say this. I'll tell a story is we've got a friend and I'm gonna have to like veil this a little bit because the podcast are on the ether webs and anybody can hear them.

[00:10:22] Right. But I think we're safe if I'm, if I'm vague enough, but we've got a friend where they have a relative. Again, I'm trying not to be too specific that is really leaning on them about doing more. You need to give us more. You gave to this other relative this level and we want you to give to us. We're afraid you won't like actually getting Like sort of mean about it's ridiculous.

[00:10:44] I think this person's a taker by the way in our giver match or taker world And they're and the people in our good friends are really big givers. So takers find givers all the time They're really good at it So my my point with that is I was talking with becky my wife a couple nights ago [00:11:00] about it It's like man, like even if you're relatives, you still got to earn it every day Like you could be related to somebody, but they don't have to give you discretionary effort.

[00:11:09] Like they're not obligated to do anything. So I think with family, that is our innermost circle. It's where we want to give the most man. If my daughters need something, I got 2 young adult daughters. Chas, man, if they need something. I am dropping client calls and I'm going to be there for them. So they have the closest access.

[00:11:31] They get the biggest gifts. And I would, like, offer over and over and over again to help them. We did a 1 of the things that we did that I think is really important. I would be curious about your take on this because I know you love family. But one of the things I did systematically when I was younger, so when the girls were from zero to about 22, is every year I would spend hours in an office, taking up all our video footage for the year and creating a bundle family [00:12:00] movie for the year.

[00:12:00] So the. 2006 funnel movie in the 2012 or whatever. And you know, when there were kids, it would basically in an hour or so, some of them got to be like two hours. Cause we did a lot of stuff and there's a lot of video once we got phones, but you would just watch a whole year go by in like an hour.

[00:12:18] Like you, at those younger ages, you'd see the kids grow up in an hour.

[00:12:22] Chaz Wolfe: in the pictures. Yeah.

[00:12:23] Mo Bunnell: Yeah. And we did a we did a live conference a couple of weeks ago for around the launch for our new book, give to grow. And I gave a talk at the end of sort of a book launch talk. It was really fun at hundreds of people there flew in from all over the world.

[00:12:36] And I got done and I was leaving the stage and my younger daughter, Josie goes, wait, we're not done. We're not done. And we're like, I'm like, what is happening? Cause both Gabby and Josie are really afraid of being in front of big audiences. And they both get up there and they said, you know, my dad is a successful business person.

[00:12:53] We, we want you to know what he's meant to us as a, as a father. Josie combed through 50 [00:13:00] hours of those bundle videos and found the five minutes of funniest things. And they played, they said nice things about me, and then they played that video in front of hundreds of people, and I, Chaz, I was bawling, my grown men that are like 6'5 and 250 and all muscles are bawling their eyes out, and it was just so cool.

[00:13:20] So anyway, all that is to say, your question about giving to relatives, like,

[00:13:25] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah.

[00:13:26] Mo Bunnell: if they've earned it, that's where we just pull the lever as hard as we can.

[00:13:31] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. I appreciate that perspective. And I think that you're right. I think that it has to be maybe earned. I think earned is the right word. I think some, sometimes that frame feels transactional,

[00:13:43] Mo Bunnell: Yeah.

[00:13:44] Chaz Wolfe: but the truth is that we're talking about our time, our limited resources. And so if, if, if we're going to assess something, that's, you know, quantifiable, we have to make it somewhat transactional because that's how value is, We have to, we have to put them in on a, [00:14:00] on a weight scale, you know?

[00:14:01] And I think that you did a great job of that, especially on the family side. You know, it's interesting because the way that you see your daughters, of course, I see my kids as well, but you can get to that place with, with whether it's relatives or whether it's with, you know, business associates or friends, of course your, your spouse.

[00:14:15] And, and that euphoric like place where it's like this just ultimate, like, you know, trying to out give each other really. It's just a really fun place to be. And, and it's like, I just want to find more of those people. You know, if I could take your formula and find the giver or start finding the matchers and the takers, and just kind of eliminate time with them, just delete.

[00:14:37] And then, and then just really press into the givers

[00:14:40] Mo Bunnell: Yeah.

[00:14:41] Chaz Wolfe: it's fun. You know, I had I had there was a, I don't, I can't remember exactly who it was, but it was a, it was a, you know, probably a tech talk video or something, but he said, you know, if you you go to lunch with someone and If there, what should happen is there should be a fight over the bill.

[00:14:55] Mo Bunnell: Yes. And it's who's paying, not who's not paying.

[00:14:59] Chaz Wolfe: exactly. And when there's [00:15:00] not, he's like, I won't ever. He's like, first off, I'm never not going to pay. I'm always going to fight for the bill. And, and, and if you don't, that's okay. I'm not expecting you to. But we're not doing lunch again because I've, I've categorized you,

[00:15:13] Mo Bunnell: Yeah.

[00:15:13] Chaz Wolfe: you know, and, and it's like, that's just one of those, like, you know, simple things of like, man, I want to, I want to wrestle every lunch, you know, for the bill, because we want to out give each other because it's not about the money.

[00:15:25] It's about, it's about, it's about, you know, filling each other up and and, and trying to, you know, take care of each other, especially as high performers, we, there's just not often a lot of people in our lives that, that play that game, you know, let alone with us and we can go back and forth with. And so I think it's pretty special that you have that with your daughters especially.

[00:15:41] For them to fill that cup of yours. Yeah, go ahead.

[00:15:43] Mo Bunnell: a little hack?

[00:15:44] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, yeah.

[00:15:45] Mo Bunnell: Okay, so this is straight from, from Give2Grow. It's one of the elements that people like the most. And it's called a protomoylist. Protomy is a Greek word, no direct English equivalent. It means first among equals. And I love that definition first among [00:16:00] equals. So what, what the audience can do is that they're thinking right now.

[00:16:03] Oh, gosh, I want to invest more in family or, you know, just this, what Chaz just said reminds me of a friend that that was my bestie in college, but we haven't caught up in 10 years. What a protomy list is, is just, okay. You just take 90 seconds. It's all it takes. Can you take out a pen and paper or fire up your second brain database or whatever?

[00:16:21] And just write down who are the 10 to 15 relationships that mean the most to you? Family, work, friend from whatever somebody play pickleball with. But there's something just There's the specificity of writing down who are these people to your point that feel you that fuel you up having a written list like that and then just revisiting it from time to time and saying, hey, how can I spend more time with Tim, you know, like, whoever's on the list?

[00:16:47] Like, that's that's money. And it's like. We just, we just can't, we can't manage that in our head. We're not good at managing stuff like that in the head. We'll be reactive. We'll, we'll more react to the invite we got to go [00:17:00] to the nearest party or whatever, as, as opposed to look at the list and say, who should we have new?

[00:17:05] Who should we spend New Year's with? It's a, it's a real big unlock for people.

[00:17:09] Chaz Wolfe: I love that. I think that you're spot on. I want to, I want to tell the listener to do that because you just told them but, you know, people need to hear it multiple times. So, write a, write a list of the people that, that, that mean the most to you that you want to be intentional with, basically, is what it comes

[00:17:22] Mo Bunnell: Yeah, that's

[00:17:22] Chaz Wolfe: I, I did something similar to this. We, we had moved across the country from Kansas city to south florida for a business opportunity handful of years ago. And you know, our whole lives were here in Kansas city. We're back here now, but I wrote a list just like you just said. And, and on my way home from the office every day, I called either one or two people on my way home and just, just the, you know, 10 or 20 minutes.

[00:17:40] It took me to get home. I spent that time and just catching up and you know, it's, it's. It's interesting what that intentionality can do, you know, especially around the people that if you're a giver and if they're a giver, then, then it just like ignites this, you know, this thing between you, well, you kind of just prompted me for my next question, which is around your book.

[00:17:58] Obviously, you just kind of flashed it there on the screen, [00:18:00] give to grow, but talk, talk about just, you know, we've kind of already gotten into, pieces of this, but why did you write the book? Who's the book for, you know, what, what can the reader expect when they, when they, you know, devour this material of yours?

[00:18:12] Mo Bunnell: Yeah. So I'll do them that order. So why did I write the book? I think there's a ton of sales books out there and they're great. Like I've read. Okay, dozens, literally dozens. In this point, we've trained, we have our own methodology. We've trained 000 professionals all over the world, but I think there was a need for a book that all sales books almost by definition are about closing the deal and moving on and relationships rarely mentioned.

[00:18:37] Or if it is, it's actually implied or explicit manipulation. Like say it this way to close the deal because you have a higher percentage chance. You mean you've seen it all right.

[00:18:46] Chaz Wolfe: Oh yeah.

[00:18:47] Mo Bunnell: Well, I think that, I think there was room for another book on the shelf. Give to grow. I hope, I hope fulfills this promise where the relationship is paramount and the deal will come.

[00:18:57] But it's, it's, it's anybody [00:19:00] who has a business that people talk about it. So referrals are important. People can purchase what you do multiple times. So there's a longer term relationship than just one, one transaction. Anybody that's got a relationship forward business, this book's for them because it teaches you how to do this stuff in a way that's enjoyable in all the examples we've been sharing so far, but also results in making money. Because if, because if you're just Pollyanna and you're just like being nice to people but don't make money, you can't do that for very long. You do, you really need both. You need altruism and you need economics. It's when you have both that the magic happens.

[00:19:37] Hey Kings and Queens, Chaz Wolf. I want to talk to you about something that's super important to me. We put a lot of time and effort, we meaning myself and my team into this podcast, into the content that goes out every single day. And if you have been getting any sort of value or insight from this, we want it to be able to reach other business owners too.

[00:19:56] So we would love if you would like comment, share, leave a [00:20:00] review, post, share again, all of the things. On social media, on all the different platforms, or even on the podcast mediums of Apple and Spotify. We would love to be able to get our content into more hands, more entrepreneurs, so they can grow their business as quick as possible.

[00:20:15] Together, we are building a community of like minded entrepreneurs who are committed to growing their businesses to new heights. So let's do this. Let's help each other grow.

[00:20:24] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. And, and so I want to dissect, I've been in sales for a long time, read a lot of the same books I'm sure that you have and the buyer in 2025. Is just so much more equipped with wisdom, knowledge, EQ, you know, like there's just so many things that the buyer has today that even 20 years ago you know, the tactics of, of the, you know, the sales gurus from 20 years ago.

[00:20:45] Are less and less effective today because of the things that I've just mentioned because of Google, because of other trainings, because of, you know, just emotional intelligence in general, the buyer has become more sophisticated and so that relationship equals authenticity [00:21:00] or being genuine and then when people connect.

[00:21:02] Then they want to buy, which we've known this, this is not a new phenomenon, but, but the way that you're going about it is, Hey, look, like, let's take, let's rather than the tactics of really manipulation, okay, fine. We can be, we can, we can make it good. Like we can manipulate you to do the thing that you actually want to do.

[00:21:20] You know, okay. I like I've twisted all that in the right language to, to be a helpful servant in sales. What you've defined is, is really how I like to do business, which is. No, I'm actually going to just actually build the relationship. And then when the relationship gets to a certain point. Amazing things happen and sometimes that's a deal.

[00:21:39] Sometimes it's not talk more about this.

[00:21:42] Mo Bunnell: Yeah, that's exactly right. I feel like, one of the chapters in the book lands this plane really well, which is fall in love with their problem. And that particular chapter teaches some science based ways of asking questions that light up the pleasure center and somebody else are highly correlated that liking people [00:22:00] like you more when you ask questions this way.

[00:22:01] I'm happy to share more about it. If you want. I just, I feel like I'm talking too much each time. But the idea, generally speaking is if. It's easy for us to really fall in love with our solutions. We do X. We're really good because we've worked with Y. We've done deals as big as Z. We can like fall in love with the things that we do, and we should know that we should have expertise.

[00:22:22] We should be the best in world at a thing. But man, when we meet with a client, a prospect, we should put all that aside just for a moment and fall in love with their problem. Ask them questions in a way that gets them to open up. Lets us hear, this is really important, hear their priorities in their words.

[00:22:40] We want to hear their priorities in their words, so we can play that back to them and say, did I get it right? In that moment where either they tweak it or they say, that's exactly it, Chaz. That's the moment that someone feels heard. They feel seen. Then they're, they feel that in very deeply they get me, they get my situation.

[00:22:59] It's at [00:23:00] that moment that they're open to hear about our solutions. Then, when we talk about our stuff, it's with, like, laser precision. We're only going to bring up the things that they really need in the order that they need it. And like, you almost can't fail, but if we, on the opposite, if we start with our stuff, we're just like throwing spaghetti at the wall.

[00:23:18] Hey, here's the 17 ways we might be able to help you. Well, they're like, these aren't working. I'm bored. What's happening. I got to pick up milk tonight. I got a soccer game this weekend. Like they're just, they're thinking about other things, even if they're physically with us.

[00:23:31] Chaz Wolfe: I love that. You know, that mindset of falling in love with their problem. And then, and then what you said that turns into his curiosity. If, if I fall in love with the problem, I want to know more, like tell me more, you know, like that's how it should be. And, and and, and we should be able to react that way, whether we're in person or on the phone, our, our, our our language, our tone, all of that should describe this just deep interest.

[00:23:54] You know, and, and I've, I've gotten this several times just because I try to operate at a, at a, at a high [00:24:00] energy level. When you walk into the room, especially if we're meeting in person and you like, lean in when someone's listening, like when you're talking to someone and you like lean in and you're like following along with them, it makes them feel a certain way. And they're like, this dude is tense. He's like, when I nod, he nods. And when, when I get excited, he gets excited. And it's like, well, first off you can play the mirror game. Sure. That's not really what I'm talking about. I'm talking about. Having this intense, like desire for them, for their

[00:24:25] Mo Bunnell: You're doing it right now. Yeah. I like this guy,

[00:24:28] Chaz Wolfe: Let's do it. Exactly. It's funny Julie and I, this was, you know, probably we've been married almost 17 years. So probably 15 years ago, 14 years ago, we were at a little marriage conference and, and you know, we, we, we learned to, to mirror and validate and, and then, you know, repeat back and and so Julie had this, had this thing of, you know, I would say whatever the issue was that we were discussing and she would summarize it back to me.

[00:24:51] And I would go, no, that's, that's not what I said. And so then I would repeat it and she'd go, yeah. Okay. So you're, you're saying dad, [00:25:00] dad, dad, dad, dad. And I'm like, no, you, you're not even close. And she was like, well, I'm, I'm, I'm just, I'm not saying exactly the word. I'm just summarizing. I'm like. And, and we obviously learned in the class and, and we've so developed.

[00:25:13] I don't want to throw her under the rug. She's incredible at this now, but, and we teach people how to do this now. But in that moment, I just couldn't feel heard unless she said it exactly.

[00:25:23] Mo Bunnell: You want the same words? Yeah.

[00:25:25] Chaz Wolfe: And, and not every personality is, is quite exacting like that, but but generally most people want to hear exactly what they've said, because that's, like you said, it makes them feel heard.

[00:25:34] What do you think is the power in that for relationship status? Okay. So now we're. We're talking relationship, but, but apply this to business because this is a sales process that you're developing. We're talking to a business and we're talking, okay. I'm developing a relationship like this intentionality or intense intentionality unto their problem.

[00:25:51] I'm, I'm really listening. I'm, I'm mirroring back. I'm, I'm repeating exactly. Back, making them feel this certain way unto you said, sometimes it gets a deal. Sometimes it's, [00:26:00] it's something else. But what, what's the formula here that I'm following?

[00:26:04] Mo Bunnell: Yeah, that's great. So let's go a step farther down the road. So, so if we can fall in love with their problem, if we can ask questions that they're excited about, we can get them talking 1st, all that kind of thing. The next step. So if we talk about formula steps is to give them the experience of working with us.

[00:26:20] So tell a quick story, and then we'll do a business example. So story. It was about about cash. No, we were younger. I was trying to say is about the time you're you're about the length of marriage you've been in, but it was younger. We were in our early years. Anyway, we were at a anniversary dinner and we had another another couple joined us.

[00:26:38] They were celebrating something. We joined up. It was awesome. And it was earlier in our career and we had just moved to Atlanta. Didn't have a lot of, lot of money. So we like took a step up, like it's, wouldn't be a big deal now, but like, it was like a restaurant we shouldn't have chosen, you know, and we're there.

[00:26:54] We're like looking at the, you know, when you look at it, you're younger and you look at the menu and like, Oh, we're, [00:27:00] can we split a side salad? What are we going to do here? So it was like those days. So anyway, we're there in a Somali walk, walked up and just, I don't even know if I knew what a Somali was at the time.

[00:27:10] Like it was that long ago and he's going on and on about. some big red wine and we all like give each other the hairy eyeball. Like, yeah, we're not going to get that, whatever he leaves. And maybe he sensed it a challenge. I don't know. We were not going to buy any, probably alcohol at all. He comes back and he's got a glass.

[00:27:30] He's got a taste. for all four of us. And we all have a taste of that very expensive wine at a restaurant we shouldn't have been at that we were worried about how we're going to get out of there. And we bought the bottle and we even bought a second bottle later on. The point of that is that hearing about how something is is not like 11 millionth as compelling as experiencing it yourself. It was sipping the wine that made it come to life, not [00:28:00] hearing about how the vineyard and the vintage and all the other things. So when we're on sales now, here's the business part is as fast as possible. We want to start giving them the experience of working with us. The magical phrase to transition from falling in love with their problem to giving them the experience of working with us is real simple.

[00:28:21] It's would it be helpful if so once we've articulated their problem back to them and they've said, that's exactly it. We might say, well, hey, what? That's exactly what we specialize in. Chaz, would it be helpful if we got together over Zoom and just spent an hour and mapped out exactly what a great process looks like for that?

[00:28:41] You can use it even if you never hire us, but it'll show you exactly how long it takes to get results. And we could even think about your team and think about the effort it takes if you would do it, or if we would do it. Gosh, it would even inform us of a fantastic proposal at the end of that if you want, if you choose to want to get it, but it's fine if you don't.

[00:28:59] [00:29:00] So what that hour. A, it's really easy to say yes to. B, it's going to give them the experience of what it's like to work with us. C, it de risks the whole thing. It's an easy next step. And guess what? At the end of that hour, they're going to want the proposal because they're going to realize we don't have the expertise or we don't have the time or whatever.

[00:29:18] And it's that transition from from falling in love with their problem to generosity, to giving them a little bite sized little gift, That's going to be helpful, but also have a high percentage chance that they're going to realize they need our help. That's where the magic is.

[00:29:33] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, I think that's, that's great. I loved how you interwove the actual generosity there of time and expertise and, and, and the listener can apply the different tactics there to their business, however that looks for them. But there was a mixture of. Let me do what's helpful for you, but inside of the middle, inside of that, that mixture of let me do what's helpful for you, there's some elements in here that will give me what I need in order to, to show you how I can serve you past [00:30:00] this initial little taste.

[00:30:01] And it's not just, you know, a free thing. It's a free thing under showing you what it would be like to work with me. For a long period of time or to solve the actual problem.

[00:30:10] Mo Bunnell: You got it. And it has a lot of value in its own right.

[00:30:13] Chaz Wolfe: Exactly. Exactly. How what have you seen from, from that, like that, that powerful tool right there? I mean, of course, like sales guy, like me, I just, I just add that to the sale. Like just another step in the sales process, you know, that that's the ultimate, you know, sales call is the first coaching, right.

[00:30:28] Or the first element of, of providing service, but for, for someone that maybe doesn't have you know, service, and this is, this is a. You know, think like the trades or, you know, someone that it's, it's not like I can, I can give you an hour on zoom. What, what, what, what have you seen in some of your clients that, that, that this exact process has worked for them?

[00:30:48] Mo Bunnell: Yeah. Anything that anything that provides a little bit of advice. So, we had an issue. Here's a trade kind of thing. We had an issue with we have 12 acres in Atlanta with horses and all kinds of stuff. In our [00:31:00] pool was slightly, the pool deck was slightly falling into the hill because some trees had fallen that were old and the root ball came up and there's a cavernous thing underneath there.

[00:31:09] And, you know, it creates a problem and all that. Anyway, a guy came, we looked at several different partners to help with this. This is not inexpensive. You know, we're talking tens of thousands of dollars to. Basically go underground and fill up the cavity and fix what had fallen and all that stuff. Not cheap.

[00:31:26] And it's the same kind of people that help with foundations of houses when they have problems and things like that. And we got two totally, like, it was like black and white approaches from the first two people that visited. First person that visited nailed it. Like he came, he looked around, he said, Hey, let me give you a good, better, best offer.

[00:31:43] I think you actually only need the better, not the best, but I do want you to see this to see what we could do. So he's, he's falling in love with our problem. He's finding the right solution. He's not upselling. He's, he's giving us a spectrum of options. There's a mental heuristic science base called the Ikea [00:32:00] effect, which says we buy into what we help create.

[00:32:03] Seems like you've seen it. Yeah. Michael Norton at a Harvard first all star team of researchers found this. It's so powerful by giving us three options. It lets us. Choose, you know, as opposed to 1 option, sort of says, do I like it or not? 3 options says, which one's best for me? You know, so there's an Ikea fact.

[00:32:18] I'm buying into what I help create and through that whole experience. It was about an hour. 90 minutes like he taught us. He had educational videos. He got us to the right thing. We were learning. It was, there was no pressure. He's like, Hey, there's a special deal. But honestly, if you call me in a couple of weeks, I'm still give it to you.

[00:32:37] Like it was like he was being so damn helpful. Person two shows up by leveraged sales tactics. You gotta let us know today, or you don't get the good deal. He was vague about the pricing. There was only one offer. There was nothing educational. It was, it was as if everything he ever learned was instill fear in the other person and they'll [00:33:00] hire you.

[00:33:00] So he was telling where he basically was saying like. You're dumb. You didn't call us earlier. You didn't do this the right way. There's only one way to solve this. We're the only people in the world. You need to sign up today. Here's the sheet of paper and a pen. Are you going to do it? Like it was like all the wrong things to do.

[00:33:17] So here's a trade like thing. And we were the worst. I teach this stuff. I can't help but audit people. And we're the recipient of both ends. One was he felt like our advisor. The other person felt like a slimy salesperson. And you know who he went with. It was, it was so easy. So I,

[00:33:36] Chaz Wolfe: Super good.

[00:33:37] Mo Bunnell: yeah. So what do, like, what, what do you hear?

[00:33:39] Like, you know, what do you hear as, I know your audience, there's a lot of folks who could apply that idea, but how would you synthesize it back? Because I, you don't have to use my exact words, , we're not, we're not married, but like, what, what's the Yeah.

[00:33:52] Chaz Wolfe: Everything that you've said is incredibly spot on to what I have personally experienced very similar to what you've described as well as [00:34:00] what, what I do in our construction company. It was just, just a couple of days ago, we closed a deal for a large master bathroom and we're, we're never the lowest price.

[00:34:09] And, and the, the homeowner was like thanking 15th. Quote that they had gotten and they had explained some high pressure situations that they had been in one, one folk one company, a pretty large company around here had like locked them in the room for like four plus hours. And they felt trapped and we weren't, we weren't the lowest.

[00:34:29] But, but very similar to the description that you gave of a lot of options and, and, and no pressure, but yet we felt like they felt like we were the advisor and we, you know, but, but we framed all this too. Like we, we. We, from the very first call, that's how the professionalism was set was that this is how it's going to happen.

[00:34:48] And this is the process that we follow. And then they got videos along the way, explaining things up ahead of time, how to pick a great contractor, whether you choose us or not, and all the things that you just described, so yeah, this is how it [00:35:00] works. Right.

[00:35:00] Mo Bunnell: Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly right. And I think if anybody can just remember one thing, it's be the advisor. Like you want to be, you want to be, you want to almost want to have the mindset of I'm a teacher. I have, I'm a Sherpa. I have, I have been up this mountain many times before the people I'm guiding have not.

[00:35:19] I can see where the problems are going to be. And if you're just teaching each step of the way, they're receiving this, like, I want to work with them and that's giving them the experience of working with us. And if the experience is slimy, salesy, high pressure stuff, they want to run, you know what it's like when somebody pushes you actually, you want to resist back.

[00:35:38] Yeah. At the other end, when we're learning, what do we do? We're not pushing back. We're taking notes. We're absorbing the information. So we're feeling curious. Like you said before.

[00:35:49] Chaz Wolfe: You know, the, the underlying tone there for me. It is always going to be just the authenticity piece that we talked about, just actually being genuine about my interest or my [00:36:00] curiosity and, and in my experience, especially like, okay, so as I've grown, I've got lots of companies, but as we've grown gathering the Kings as a community for entrepreneurs.

[00:36:08] Where for me, I've defined like I use the Napoleon Hill mastermind definition of two or more working in harmony unto achieving something specific. And so it's like, if that word harmony, if we're going to actually use that, it, this is, I, I, I'm not going to strong arm you into anything. In fact, I don't even want to come close to that because then we don't have harmony.

[00:36:28] Which is everything you've just described about that situation of that coming, those two companies coming out, you had harmony with the one you didn't with the other. And so the under, the underlying tone is, you know, this genuine curiosity, intentional advisory help, you know, or the other ones like kind of fear based.

[00:36:44] Maybe they're commission hungry or if it's an owner of a company, they're, you know, trying to try to do payroll. It's typically all fear based and like. You know, like hard hitting because of something that's selfish in nature. But at the end of the day, the salesperson has got to get paid. The business owner has got to run a business.

[00:36:59] It is [00:37:00] about money to some degree. And so there's this balance right between, I genuinely interested, but sometimes the deal takes longer, not every time, but sometimes, and like you said at the beginning, and I've felt this in my, in my own business, especially in the higher end ticket stuff is that I can create a relationship and I can force them now.

[00:37:19] And okay, sure, I got a deal. But if I, if I not force it, that deal, that deal eventually comes to me and then also three or 10 referrals and it's just a much bigger pot typically. And maybe I don't close every single one like over here. If I would have forced them all, I would have closed them all or 80 percent of them.

[00:37:35] And maybe I only closed 30 percent over here, but that 30 percent equals 300 percent where, you know, I'm burning people over here. Talk about this. This, the experience of, cause that, that one guy that made you feel that way, he's getting deals, right? And so there's this experience of like a lot of salespeople and, and contractors and, and entrepreneurs listening right now going, this is what I've been taught, talked, you know, told to push and, and to ask for [00:38:00] the business and be direct.

[00:38:00] And here's the pen sign right here. And, but, but there's this emotional intelligence about that you and I are talking about. It's like, Hey, I don't have to be that way. But there's a slippery slope to then the deal never happens. I'm nice guy. Like you said at the beginning, how am I juggling these two things?

[00:38:15] Mo Bunnell: Yeah, yeah, so this is 1 of those where I feel compelled to say there's a federal legislation around this that they should. The audience should buy the book gift to grow, like as an author, I actually have to say that at least once on every podcast. So jokes aside, there's a lot more in the book. I do that mean that seriously.

[00:38:34] But that said what we've seen trained somewhere between 15, 000, 50 and 70, 000 professionals all over the world. Different cultures, different geographies, like every industry you can think of. I think we've worked with now like 800 different separate organizations. So everything from the global nonprofit giving folks at Habitat for Humanity, one of the top 5 [00:39:00] nonprofits in the world, everything from there to you.

[00:39:02] I'm not allowed to say who it is, but one of the three biggest management consulting, most prestigious managing consulting firms in the world, there's only three, but we work with one of them all over the world, everything in between from nonprofit to total commercial skills, I would actually argue that the person who does these things the right way, again, more in the book, give to grow has a higher short term close rate than the pushy person.

[00:39:24] Chaz Wolfe: Interesting.

[00:39:25] Mo Bunnell: And I don't even think it's even close, actually. And then, to your point, that network effect of the long term, I felt great about this person, and I'm running around to others saying you should meet Mo or Jane or whoever you should meet them to, because I had a great experience. I think you not only win statistically in the short term, but you win in the long term, too.

[00:39:46] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. My, my personal experience actually lines up with that, but I think that the fear based person, you know, who's, who's mostly been trained in, you know, certain tactics thinks, well, if I'm nice, then I won't get, I won't get as many [00:40:00] deals. And,

[00:40:00] Mo Bunnell: it's just not true.

[00:40:03] Chaz Wolfe: I love that,

[00:40:03] Mo Bunnell: just not true.

[00:40:04] Chaz Wolfe: the stats also. Okay.

[00:40:06] So you, you've been, you've been in

[00:40:07] Mo Bunnell: share a quick,

[00:40:08] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead.

[00:40:09] Mo Bunnell: just, it's a quick story, but it's sort of a vignette that'll bring it to action. There's a there's a managing director and senior partner at one of the top professional services in the world. I'll leave it at that. We work very closely with him and his entire organization.

[00:40:21] I actually think he's the biggest professional services book of business in the world. It's around 200, depending on the year, it's between 250 One person. Yeah. Well, a whole team of people, but one person's leading it. It's not like, it's not like he's leading a geography, like it's his, it's his clients. He's the most generous person I know in my life. Never any pressure, but let me tell you, he's always making a recommendation. He's always asking for a next step. He's also, he's always taking a small risk and deepening a relationship. If he hasn't gone to lunch with somebody before, meets him in the hallway, he asks to go to [00:41:00] lunch.

[00:41:00] When he's at lunch, he asks for a, Hey, let's have quarterly check ins. Like he's always doing bold things to move things forward. So he's So I do want to make it clear. He's super proactive. He's super strategic. He's always sort of moving at the edge of what he's comfortable with and what other people are comfortable with.

[00:41:17] I mean that in a good way. He literally writes down what his top clients should be focused on on a piece of paper, whether they hire him or not. And then he, this is, these are his words. He says he feels compelled to bring those ideas to them. Will they involve his company or not? And by doing that over and over and over again, he's sole sources, private market, very few things of his go out to bid and to do that and have what I think in professional services, the biggest book of business in the world, all through generosity and proactivity.

[00:41:54] So it's not that he's reactive and waiting on things to come his way. Not at all. While he [00:42:00] doesn't ever apply pressure, he's very clear. When he does think he is the right, the right answer, he'll tell people. So I don't, I don't, I think there's some nuance here. I hope I cleaned up with that little story.

[00:42:11] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, yeah, I love that. I think that what it made me think of is, you know, when you're saying he's not applying pressure, he might not have the intention of applying pressure, but if we apply pressure with without it feeling like pressure, is it pressure, you know, like build my own little vortex there for a second in that, in the way I said that, but.

[00:42:34] Mo Bunnell: No, I like it. I like it. He's always doing things that are the best interest of other people. So they want to come along with him.

[00:42:41] Chaz Wolfe: exactly and, and in such you're, you're moving the ball down the field or you're, you're applying pressure, pressure you know, typically is seen as a bad thing, especially in sales. But if I'm aligning myself, if we have harmony, then, then there really isn't pressure we're walking together. You know, or running for that matter, you know,

[00:42:58] Mo Bunnell: Yeah, it's almost like we're [00:43:00] providing an incentive. Because because if he did, but if he does have, let's say he has the number one expert in the world to solve a problem and the client agrees, we should, we should have you if that person truly was about to get committed to another client organization.

[00:43:17] And he says he would call up his client. I just want to let you know she's going to she's going to go to this other organization unless you make a decision by Friday. We just have to know like that. That's pressure. But if it's authentic and true, he would feel comfortable doing that, but he would never make it up.

[00:43:32] And I think that's the difference we're talking about here that you just nailed is this if pressure is given in harmony or from a place that's true and authentic, then it's then it's actually okay to give it. It's not okay when it's made up because people see that they sense it and they're like, I don't trust this person.

[00:43:49] That's the difference. Yeah,

[00:43:52] Chaz Wolfe: yeah, I was on a call just a couple of days ago. We, we do a family mastermind vacation in the summer. It's a, it's like a whole thing, the spouses, entrepreneur, their, their [00:44:00] spouse, the kids. Yeah. Super fun. And we're going to put you kind of in June this year. And I'm on a call a couple of nights ago with a, with a family that's considering coming.

[00:44:07] And, and I get towards the end and we're talking about the, the money and the resort and all the details. And I'm like, okay, and here's the, we call it a quick action discount, but you know, it says seven days on the screen. Like, I'll give you plenty of time to make a good decision with your family. Like no decisions today.

[00:44:23] I already set that expectations at the beginning and you guys are going to go talk about it. And the quick action discount, you know, we'll give you this discount if you, if you take action the next seven days. And so we start, we start looking at the calendar and she was like. You know, I'm traveling a little bit.

[00:44:35] She's traveling a little bit and we were like nine days and she was like, well, what about that? Seven day discount? I was like, well, you know, to be honest with you, just like we talked about, cause we talked about it for a few minutes there. I was like, it says seven days, but just like I told you a few minutes ago, all I'm really trying to get you to do is if you want to come, come, if you don't.

[00:44:51] I don't want to drag it along, you know, that's all it is. Nine days is perfect. 19 days is perfect. That's not really the point. The point is, is like, if you want to come take action, like, [00:45:00] let's, let's make a commitment. Let's, let's, let's step towards the thing that we want to do. If not, that's okay too.

[00:45:04] Like, no big deal, but, but I think we'll be okay at nine days. And she was like, I so appreciate that. You know, it's

[00:45:11] Mo Bunnell: Well, even, even though I know you're just like playing it back and we weren't in real life there, but just even the way you did it with a smile and with a laugh and here's the idea behind it like that. Just levity just takes all that pressure down to, I think, I think having a little fun with this kind of thing.

[00:45:27] Just makes it better as well. I just want to point that out because I just think the way you just articulate, like, here's how I did it. It was great. That was just the perfect response.

[00:45:35] Chaz Wolfe: I appreciate that. You talk a lot about mo how you know, top performers outperform average performers by like 10 X or more. Why is that?

[00:45:45] Mo Bunnell: Yeah. Well, I think it comes down to 1 thing. I think they make more offers of helpfulness. So, let's say that let's compare it to sports. So, I like, I hated Duke basketball until my daughter went to Duke and the moment she got in, I became the biggest fan of [00:46:00] basketball of all time. They, you know, they are killing it.

[00:46:03] But if I'm, but if I'm Cooper Flagg, like. I can't if I'm whoever I can't just say I'm going to take 500 shots in a game like I'm limited by the number of minutes in the game. I got 40 minutes on the court. I can play every 1 of the 40 minutes if I'm in great shape, I avoid cramping and all these other things, but I got a whole nother team there.

[00:46:23] Like, there's, there's a fixed amount of resources that I can, I can go after to, to make, to make the best, be the best player I can be. But. If I'm in sales, if I'm in business development, if I'm an entrepreneur, if I run a company now, I've got a whole year. I, I literally one person, there's no doubt in my mind can make 10 times the offers of helpfulness as another person.

[00:46:47] Another person might feel scarcity. Maybe they're a hoarder. Maybe they feel like I'm not allowed to give anything away. Maybe they don't think it's the right move. Maybe they use these high pressure things we're talking about. They're never offering in the helpfulness. There's probably people that offer [00:47:00] like 10 things a year.

[00:47:01] There's somebody else that offers 10, 000

[00:47:04] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah.

[00:47:05] Mo Bunnell: and if they're being strategically helpful in the way that we defined at the top of the show, man, my money is on the person that's being strategically helpful to all these 10, 000 people or 10, 000 offers. Because maybe 5, 000 get accepted, that person's, that person's business is going to explode, absolutely explode.

[00:47:23] So, I think that's, I think that's the main answer. Honestly, it's like, who, who makes more offers of helpfulness that are strategic to the right people? Like, if you're doing that over and over again. You're gonna kill it.

[00:47:34] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. Yeah. I think that there's a lot of opportunity to be able to determine one. How am I getting to the offer stage? How many times can I do that? Is it to the right person? Am I being helpful? Like you gave several layers there in just those couple of sentences of ways to improve. And so if you're listening right now you should, you should play that back, like the helpful hip hint, just to go back a couple of sentences, hit the, [00:48:00] hit the backwards 30 seconds, a couple of times.

[00:48:01] Mo Bunnell: I even like, I'll even say,

[00:48:03] Chaz Wolfe: ahead.

[00:48:03] Mo Bunnell: say this just like, if I'm on a, let's say I've got a half hour introductory call with somebody that came in through a referral, we helped this organization and they said this to this other person, hey, you might be able to hire up on our idea group and, you know, do business development training for all your folks.

[00:48:18] I will oftentimes, not all the time, so I do some of this in my head, but I'll, as I take notes, I'll literally make tally marks for how many offers of helpfulness I gave. And in our 30 minute example, I would, I would want to have like three follow ups from a 30 minute meeting of things that, Hey, I'm gonna connect you with so and so and we're gonna send our materials and we're gonna let you come to our public workshops for free and whatever.

[00:48:42] So if I want three good, helpful follow-ups to pop out of that, I'm probably going to offer like six. So they're, I'm, I'm more interested as I go through that call, the number one thing I'm interested in is how many offers of helpfulness did I give? And if I give six, I'm probably [00:49:00] going to get three or four acceptances.

[00:49:01] We're going to get a next meeting. It's a 90 percent chance of getting hired at that point. Is that helpful to even think like there's even a mathy way to think about this.

[00:49:10] Chaz Wolfe: I'm, I think like you do I'm not an actuary by trade, but, but but I think in

[00:49:15] Mo Bunnell: That's good. Actually.

[00:49:17] Chaz Wolfe: yeah, I was gonna say you, you probably have a little depth of understanding there that I don't, but you know, the, the, I think what you did there, at least hopefully is a lot of, a lot of times entrepreneurs and especially salespeople, when they think.

[00:49:29] You know, offers of helpfulness, you, they think offer, right? Pitch, pitch, pitch,

[00:49:35] Mo Bunnell: Yeah,

[00:49:36] Chaz Wolfe: product,

[00:49:37] Mo Bunnell: As for the business,

[00:49:38] Chaz Wolfe: service, right? And your offers of helpfulness may have been a connection. It may have been you know, helpful to jump on something that has nothing to do with your service whatsoever and being able to, Oh, I've got experience with that.

[00:49:48] Let me, let me, let me give you some advice or whatever it is that you're, that you're doing there. And, and I think about those things, especially as we've been able to develop a network and. You know, of course, as we're building a community, it's like. That's almost like the [00:50:00] go to is like I'm listening and I'm getting to know people and I'm like, oh you need to know so and so instantly and and that's just a super easy, you know, offer of helpfulness as you as you so eloquently say it, but just those little things.

[00:50:12] It's not necessarily the pitch. I'm not pitching six times in the call. I'm, I'm, I'm trying to see how how genuinely helpful I can be to this person and offering those things, right?

[00:50:23] Mo Bunnell: Well, what's brilliant about what you just said? I hope I hope this lands with the audience is you actually accomplish many things with 1 action, which is just the essence of strategy number 1. You're they feel reciprocity. They feel reciprocity. There's a bunch of research. Dennis Reagan's the lead researcher here.

[00:50:38] We tend to want to repay those who give to us. So when you start with giving, even if it's connecting with somebody else, they want to repay you. There's a higher chance they're going to buy your mastermind or whatever, whatever it is you're talking about. Number two, you've built in a proactive reference check.

[00:50:53] So when you say, Sue, you should meet, you should meet Jane. Jane came to our mastermind. These great outcomes happen. She [00:51:00] actually, she actually had that same issue you just shared about scaling across the team or whatever it is three years ago when she came to our mastermind, I just caught up with her the other day and she's tripled in size in three years and it's like twice what she thought she could get and she could tell you exactly how she did it.

[00:51:14] So now those two are going to talk and there's going to be tremendous value given. But guess what? The first thing they're going to say is, Hey, how do you know chess? Oh, chat. Gather the kings is amazing. Oh my god. I went to the Nashville event Then we went down to the foot and then this happened I met these people and they're some of my best friends like so like you can actually step out of the way Let them talk about you and it's much more compelling than you talking about you So that that's awesome.

[00:51:39] And the third they just get a lot of value out of it Because you've, you've carefully chosen these people through sort of your, your sixth sense. And so anyway, there's probably a lot more value, but like, just do that. 1 thing of sending a little 50 word email. It says, Jane, you ought to meet Sue. You have accomplished so many different things.

[00:51:56] Oh, and for your current client. They're being reinforced how [00:52:00] much they've learned from you too. So they're more likely to buy again. So like there's a four three, so you just do through your one action you're thinking of there You're accomplishing four things and you don't even have to be there. It's all free time.

[00:52:12] It's a killer move

[00:52:13] Chaz Wolfe: That's right. Yeah, you're. Gosh, you articulate that so well. I hope that the listener grabs your book. I want to, I want to give you kind of a kind of a signing off opportunity here. You've, you've done, you've worked with high performers, you've worked with organizations, you know, for, for decades, what, what's something that the listener has to have right now that, that maybe you wish you would have known early on, or maybe there's something that you did learn early on that has helped you throughout.

[00:52:40] You know, helping so many people, but just kind of like that one drop of nugget just to finish this off here.

[00:52:46] Mo Bunnell: That is a killer question. I think I actually got this, but it was half through accident and a lot less through intentionality. So, so with that caveat, I would say to the audience, [00:53:00] lean into the skills of business growth. It's so everything in life will steer us to learning the skills of doing our work.

[00:53:09] We're going to become a great contractor. We're in a coaching business. We're going to become just doing the work will make you better at doing the work. But when you think about winning the work, doing the work does not make you better at winning the work. That is its own skill. Obviously, our book, Give to Grow, is a great resource.

[00:53:24] There's a million others. Go through a class, build a mastermind of people learning that skill, create learning opportunities for people on your team. Spend as much time thinking about shaping the agenda. Building positive relationships, making these offers of helpfulness, start to document, like, exactly which phrases work for you.

[00:53:45] What are your go to offers of helpfulness? You would make document those codify them, productize them, serialize them, like, put as much effort into the winning of the work as you do in the doing of the [00:54:00] work. And then, then you can do anything you want in life.

[00:54:04] Chaz Wolfe: I love that. Okay. So where can they find the book give to grow and and where can they connect with you?

[00:54:10] Mo Bunnell: Yeah. Right on. So give to grow. It's everywhere. Launched as a national bestseller, which is really exciting. Right now it's in all the, as we record now, it's in all the airport bookstores. So if you want a physical copy, it's in well, bookstores all over the world. Amazon obviously. The other resource though, that's free, that's somebody could do right away, even before they get an Amazon package.

[00:54:29] Is if they go to give to grow dot info dot info, if you jazz, if you could imagine the pressure and author that writes a book on giving has to give away things, it's quite high. So we created this massive free training course with videos a couple dozen downloads and we set it up where. Yeah, it accompanies the book for sure.

[00:54:52] It makes the book better, but we set it up where it would make sense if somebody didn't even have the book. So if somebody doesn't have 20 to buy a gift [00:55:00] to grow, they could go to gift to grow. info gift to grow. info get a free course right now. And it's just, it's, it's one of the best things we've ever built and it's free.

[00:55:09] Chaz Wolfe: I love it. Yeah, you couldn't have said it any better. You can't, you can't write a book and, and talk philosophy and, and strategy around helping people give to grow. Without giving first. And so what a, what a great example in that, but, but Mo incredible conversation, honestly I'm, I kept looking up the clock going like, dang, I have so many more questions.

[00:55:26] This is such an interesting conversation. I hope that you just kill it in 2025. I hope that your daughters continue to just pour the love on you because clearly you're a talented human and a father, and I just I feel touched that we would have just this time together and I feel honored for that.

[00:55:41] So. Appreciate you being here and pouring out and a blessings to you and your family in 2025. Thanks for being here, brother.

[00:55:47] Mo Bunnell: Thanks man. I appreciate it.

[00:55:48] Thank you for listening to driven to win. I hope that you were able to pull out a few nuggets to go apply into your business right away. More importantly, though, I hope that you're realizing that it takes more to be [00:56:00] successful than just being by yourself, doing it all on your own, carrying the weight all by yourself.

[00:56:05] What I have realized, not only in my own journey from multiple businesses and multiple different industries, and now interviewing over two or 300. Other very successful seven, eight and nine figure business owners is that it's tough to do it alone. And so gathering the Kings exists to bring together successful entrepreneurs.

[00:56:23] In fact, we are putting together 1000 Kings specifically who are grateful, but not done. We're intentionally assembling Kings who fight tooth and nail for their business, family, and communities. And here's what we believe that in the pursuit of excellence in those areas. That it ignites within us the responsibility to govern power and forge a lasting legacy.

[00:56:47] So if that relates and resonates with you and you know that you need people around you, sharp, qualified, other very successful business owners, I want you to go to gathering the kings.com. I want you to take a look at [00:57:00] what we're doing and see if it makes sense for you to be part of our pursuit to 1000 Kings Talk soon.

Is success in business about being the nice guy or the cutthroat hustler? Neither. According to Mo Bunnell, the key to winning in business is strategic generosity—giving in the right way to build relationships, drive revenue, and create lasting impact. In this episode, Mo shares the science behind generosity-driven success, practical sales strategies, and how to balance giving without getting taken advantage of.

Mo Bunnell:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mo.bunnell
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mobunnell/
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@MoBunnell1
Website: https://bunnellideagroup.com/givetogrow/
Website: https://bunnellideagroup.com/

Chaz Wolfe:
Link tree: https://linktr.ee/chazwolfe
Website: http://www.gatheringthekings.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/chazwolfe/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/gatheringthekings
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gtkfamilymastermind
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chaz-wolfe-86767054/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/gatheringthekings/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@gtkfamilymastermind
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCM1-6UfgrdBzqk1k20VJgXQ