197 | How to Implement Effective Marketing Strategies for eCommerce Businesses: Lessons from Mike Deluca
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[00:01:09] Chaz Wolfe: What's up everybody? I'm Chaz Wolf gathering the King's podcast Today I've got Mike DeLuca on the King stage, my brother Mike. How we
[00:01:16] Mike DeLuca: doing? Doing good, Chaz. Thanks for having me.
[00:01:19] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, man, just appreciate you being here. You know, I gotta tell you, I, I see that beard coming through, man. I mean, you might, you might be able to grow it out a little bit.
No, I'm just kidding.
[00:01:27] Mike DeLuca: beard. I could, if I had the patience to, to deal with along year,
[00:01:31] Chaz Wolfe: say. It looks, it, looks, looks full and ready to come through, man. Yeah. But, Mike, tell us what kind of business that you got here. I'm excited for this conversation.
[00:01:36] Mike DeLuca: so I own west end motorsports.com. We're an e-commerce retailer.
we do motorcycle parts and accessories, side by side stuff. pretty much everything aftermarket. I don't do any repair parts. It's ba we say it's everything you want and nothing you need. So, you know, that's, that's, I love that.
[00:01:53] Chaz Wolfe: I love that and, and, I definitely wanna dive into a little bit more of that, but, what a fun business.
Just, being able to now be e-com space, um mm-hmm. That's, that's a unique, thing in itself, but then also to be in, in, in that type of product line. Do you ha is there, is there a connection to that product line? you, your family, like, or did you, did you just get
[00:02:10] Mike DeLuca: started with this? Well, sort of, yeah.
I mean, I, I mean, we're kind of. Motorcycle people, Harley people growing up, we'd go to bike nights and stuff like that. I mean, we're, didn't have any money. My dad didn't have any money, so we didn't have a bike usually, until he got a little bit older and then, he got into the community. he was working, he lost his job with Pfizer actually.
They outsourced him, gave him a decent severance package, and then he ended up starting West End Motorsports in 2004 with, you know, with the funds that he got from that severance package. So, wow. I, yeah, I was still in high school at the time and so we started, you know, building the business, building a store and, and all those things together, at that point,
[00:02:46] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah.
That's incredible. Well, I wanna dive in more into the story, but before we do, this'll be interesting asking you this conversa or this question, because you're second generation or you've kind of, you've, you know, you're the son of the, the founder, but you've been building it kind of along the way.
Mm-hmm. , what's your why? Like, why are you doing this? Obviously it's been super successful and you're still doing it. You're pressing on why? What's
[00:03:07] Mike DeLuca: the bigger picture? Well, the real answer is I don't have any other options, . So, you know, that's honest. And basically, you know, I've been, I've been, I suppose, guided to this path and, it's one that I've stuck to so far.
I don't know how long I'll stay on it, but, you know, truthfully, I, I wasn't even supposed to be there at the start. I, I hadn't listed in the Marine Corps. at a high school I was not a very good. I don't know if I was a D student, but it was pretty close and, not dumb. I just, I, I mean, I just, I just don't, yeah.
I couldn't sit still and, and didn't really enjoy being in school. Right. So, except for history, I did graded history, but it was everything else. It just, it wasn't really for me. So, I enlisted in the Marine Corps and, I got hurt before I went to bootcamp, and so I actually wasn't able to go. So I just, my dad asked me if I wanted to start working and I was like, yeah, sure.
You pay me five bucks an hour, cash under the table. And it was, What I mean, what else was I gonna do, you know? And then, right. One thing sort of led to another and within about a year we started getting busy. And then we were just, you know, it was, it was really fun to be a part of a growing business.
It was a family business, but, you know, that part of it, I, you know, I've always enjoyed and I've never really, it was just always the best path for me, you know, in, in the big picture. . Yeah. I think
[00:04:20] Chaz Wolfe: a lot of entrepreneurs can relate to that, right? First off, not fitting in at school and learning in a very linear, square classroom format.
I think that all of us kind of just like, you know, . Yeah, exactly. I think there's a lot , a lot of relatability there. but what you also said in there is that you kind of found a home in a little bit of a startup, a little bit of a mess, a little bit of a growth, you know, environment. That, that, that all fit for you.
Yeah. Why do you think that, that fits this person that didn't do well in school, but fits over here? Why do you think
[00:04:48] Mike DeLuca: that? I don't know. I mean, I, you know, I, I, I turned out to be good at finding people what they wanted. I, I mean, I'm guess, I guess I'm decent at listening and so decent enough where I could listen to what people said they were looking for, put them on track to the right item, right part, even if it's a small item or whatever.
But, you know, anything in sales starts at listening. And it turned out that I was naturally good at it. And so that's probably the thing that sorta kept. Kept me in line and, and, and kept me there. The, the most, or kept me interested, I would say, is the fact that you have this complex process of people calling, looking for certain things, and, being able to have a knowledge, you know, have a huge repoire and a large set of information that you can access at any point and be like, yeah, that's probably not right, but maybe you wanna try this, this, and this.
Or, yeah. You know, having failure from other customers, buying stuff they didn't want and just being able to be like, I've had people do this and they bought for the wrong reason, so maybe you should be looking at this. And, you know, just that, that sort of ethic has sort of allowed me to be good at that part of the job.
So. Yeah. Yeah. I, I've always enjoyed, I mean, it's, it's good to be good at something, you know, , so
[00:05:57] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, that's what I heard you say, that you became an expert. You know, you've expert in helping people and expert at this specific type of, you know, business. also too, I was gonna say with it being a family business, do you think that that played into just your relationship building that you were kind of just talking about?
You know, that's really what it comes down to, right? Is helping people and building relationships. Yeah. And you kind of said that that's part of listening and, and sales, but helping somebody like pick and choose and, and being able to remember parts and being able to remember past experiences and all that fun stuff is about
[00:06:28] Mike DeLuca: relationships.
Would you agree? Yeah. Well it is, and you know, and maybe, that might have been a subconscious part of it. I certainly didn't wanna make a mistake that would end up costing us money. Right. Because any mistake that I make in recommending something or choosing something that has the wrong fit man or anything like that would, would come outta my dad's pocket, my family's pocket in the end.
So, I mean, I've, part of all that is being careful, you know, and, and being cautious because I'd, I'd rather. Have them hesitate to buy now and buy the right part later than sell the wrong part and have to deal with that whole mess and, you know, have the company have to deal with that whole mess. And so that's always sort of been a, a guiding principle I've had, through throughout the process.
[00:07:08] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. What do you see, you know, the, the, the next play for you or the, maybe the deeper reason of, like you said, maybe it's this business, maybe it's just an entrepreneurial, you know, environment that fits well for you. Is it, is it the serving the people? Is it solving problems? Like, what's like inside of you that's like burning every day, like, I gotta go do this.
What is that?
[00:07:27] Mike DeLuca: Yeah, it's probably more problem solving. I mean, you know, a as you solve one problem, you're kind of always looking for the next one, or you get bored. The problems that you've already solved? I mean, I've been dealing with retail customers in e-commerce, so at volume for almost 20 years. So that part is, you know, it, it gets exhausting sometimes.
Sometimes it's great, you know, and I'm still surprised sometimes by how. You meet people and I mean, I've met people through the business and just through selling motorcycle parts. I went to Australia, met some friends and, you know, rode motorcycles down the Great Ocean Road because I sold these guys motorcycle parts.
So there are some amazing portions of it, but a lot of the day-to-day and, nastiness that you sometimes get, especially in the covid world where everything is lacking availability and stuff that, yeah, that gets difficult. So the problem solving, I would say is a thing that sort of keeps me on track.
Yeah, most of the time, I mean, I, I waiver, you know, and, and honestly, you know, it's something that I, I deal with where you, you reach certain goals and stuff and now the next problem is, well, where do you, where's the, where's the next finish line? And is it, yeah. You know, is it something that you wanna really pursue or is it something, or are you just moving it just for the sake of moving it or is there a point to moving it?
You know? And so that's sort of where I'm at now cuz fortunately we've reached a lot of those early goals. So the next problem is, Well now what, you know?
[00:08:51] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, yeah. Well, I think it's a, a question that we all ask ourselves either. Yeah. I'm sure. Along the way or multiple times, or at least at some point when we hit the goal or when we're getting close.
and so I, I hope that you dial into that and, and figure out what the next thing is for you because that's, that's, yeah, exactly. That's what keeps us moving, you know? yeah. I actually learned a long time ago, right before you hit it, which, which for some people this doesn't work because they need to cross the finish line, you know, celebrate and I'm all about that.
Yeah. But I'm more of the guy that's like, right before I hit it, I'm like, yeah. You know, push it out just a little further. Uhhuh draws me in, push it out a little further, draws me in. because I like the game. Yeah. Because if I, if I cross the finish line, then, then the game's over, you know, , but
[00:09:33] Mike DeLuca: Yeah. Well, and it turns out that that's, that's probably what everybody likes.
We just don't know it, you know, until you Right. Until. Got to that finish line and you sort of realized, well, we're here, ,
[00:09:43] Chaz Wolfe: we're here. Exactly. It's, it's actually, it's actually, what I felt when we went to the Grand Canyon. Now I could be totally off on left field here, but Yeah. I don't know if you've been to the Grand Canyon, but when I got there it was like, awesome.
Yeah. Okay. Like, do we go now or like, what do we do? Like, it was so vast and so grand and such a big finish line as you were just talking about. Yeah. Okay. Now what, you know, , it's,
[00:10:08] Mike DeLuca: I mean, it's a perfect metaphor, man. It's, it's, it, there's a lot of that, especially, you know, when you're in business for yourself.
[00:10:14] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, exactly. So we gotta figure out how to, how to gotta keep, keep the line pushing out. Yeah. to, to, to make the, make the next target. alright. Well, Mike, I wanna get into the, the practicality of the business here. I wanna know, as you've been building, obviously alongside your family, but what's a good decision that you guys have?
In the business that you can look back on and go, Hmm. When we did this, it really lined up a lot of our success. What is that?
[00:10:39] Mike DeLuca: so like most things in my life, it was not exactly a, a, a completely thought out decision. It was more of a. A decision of survival. When I first bought the company from my dad in 2017, we had changed platforms.
I, I mean, I don't wanna get too technical there cuz it's boring, but basically we had a really old website and so we changed to a new website and the process of moving 20 to 30,000 items and subcategories and subcategories over to that new website was sort of promised to be streamlined and wasn't in the end.
And so we. Months during our transition, getting a new platform up and updated and and there were some catastrophic failures throughout that process. and so as a result, we ended up having to go with a, a marketing company, to do our advertising. Cause most of our business comes from, you know, AdWords, paper click advertising, SEO stuff.
I mean, that's just the nature of e-commerce. And so, right. We ended up getting sort of funneled into. Or again, you know, introduced, I guess would be a, a better way to look at it as a result of the platform's failures. And it has turned out to be, I mean, we're still in, we still have a business relationship and it's been the absolute best thing that's ever happened to
[00:11:50] Chaz Wolfe: us.
Wow. Wow. And so the lesson learning there, actually I pulled out a couple, tell them if I'm wrong. Number one, I just heard persistence. Kinda like you said, there was a bunch of like, ick. Yeah. That you kind of had to push through, but now it turned out okay. Yeah. But then technology matters, platform matters.
it sounds like in a way maybe it's, it just makes it easier for them to check out. Like any specifics that you wanna share there that maybe is like a, like, Hmm, what should I be thinking about for my own business? Well, yeah, sure.
[00:12:14] Mike DeLuca: Specifically, I mean, You know, at the time our, our website was designed in 2004.
I mean, look, you know, we don't go back and look at websites from 2004, but we remember 'em. And so, you know, obviously we added throughout, but at some point we got really stagnant and that was part of the reason that my dad transitioned out and I, and I bought him out. But we also had a platform that was extremely difficult to update.
It was stand like a standalone unit, basically siloed in its own type of technology and, you know, potentially anybody could make anything work on it, but there weren't people out there doing it, so it just kind of became obsolete. And so, you know, we needed a website where just little things like it would remember your cart when you came back and two weeks later to buy the thing so you didn't have to look for it all over again and Right.
you know, there's, I mean, there's probably a thousand other little things like that. Yeah. But, But there was a thousand things that needed to be updated, kind of. And so by switching platforms, that gave us the ability to, to have at least access to the, the ability to have a constant update instead of needing to do a tear down update every, every five years, which, yeah, ultimately any business kind of has to do.
But I, I prefer to do it steadily so that we don't have to, we don't have to fully renovate, you know,
[00:13:27] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, that, that full renovation e even on a, like a C R M transitioning, a C R M, like there's just a lot of work that goes into something like that. And, you know, I don't think most entrepreneurs realize like it's promised ahead of time that it's gonna be super smooth and, and, and seamless always everything.
And it just rarely is, whether it's a platform, whether it's a C R M, it doesn't really matter, right. you need, just need a plan for probably twice or three times as long and, and keeping on your current platform until it's like all the way tested and, and. Yeah.
[00:13:57] Mike DeLuca: Yeah, it's, it's, it's difficult, especially with service providers in the technology world, like you said.
I mean, you know, one of the things that you find out pretty quickly is that everybody over promises and under delivers, which has always been the opposite of our ethos. You know, I mean, I've always told people this will take longer. You know, I just hedged expectations so that ultimately they end up satisfied.
not everybody, but the majority of these companies that you deal with and service providers, it's always the same thing. And it, and it, and going back to that shortsighted thing, it's like, well, I'm just not gonna continue to use you. If you promised accordingly and you know, you did what you could say, well then we'll stay in bi.
We'll have a, a business relationship forever. You know? Right. But that's right. You overpromise and you don't do what you said. Well, it's gonna last a month or two months. So it's the short money versus the long money, kind of thing for me. I'm very fortunate to that marketing company that we work with had the same mindset as far as long money.
You know, they want customers that are there forever if, if it's possible.
[00:14:55] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, there's, there is a uniqueness of what you're talking about because most people don't think long term and then in the business world, okay, so maybe they're thinking a little bit longer term because they're building a business and they used to have some sort of, idea of delayed gratification.
But still now you have almost like, like a, like a snake oil .
[00:15:13] Mike DeLuca: Yeah. Well, and the sales guy's got numbers they gotta hit right? Cuz they get paid on commission and so Yeah, they're not the guys who are gonna service. It's a technical call later. They're not the guys who are gonna service the customer service questions later about why did you over?
So they get to sell, make their quota, or maybe not, or maybe beat their quota and get, and get their commission and then pass the problem along to somebody else. So they create all these problem. And so, and that's, I mean, that is just something that's extremely common for anybody trying to do anything , you know, it's just, but I don't get it.
I, I mean, I don't get it. And you can only do that if you have a system. Like those sales guys are siloed from the customer service guys. I mean, they should work like every other cubicle so that the customer service guy can be like, Hey, your salesman was built. And walk right next to him. Be like, bill, what are you doing man?
I've been on the phone with this guy for three hours and now he's gonna cancel. And so, but that's not really how these systems are. Most of 'em, I'm sure they are, they're good companies that do that. But, But a lot of 'em don't do that. They don't. It's just push. It's all push. So
[00:16:11] Chaz Wolfe: what would you say to the guy listening right now who maybe hasn't experienced this like we have, or maybe he or she has.
Yeah. They're, they're in alignment with us. They're like, I know this is crazy. I, I'm, I'm trying to provide, or I'm trying to get a marketing or, any type of service provider. Yeah. And I just don't know how to like weed through. So like, are any tactics that you know how to weed through or get them, or like for us to realize?
Do they think long term like we do? Like anything that you wanna share? always
[00:16:35] Mike DeLuca: getting out close. I mean like don't ever put yourself in a situation where you are stuck, where you are married to a service provider for any lengthy period of time. Now there there's gonna be times where maybe it takes you a year to realize that something doesn't work, you know?
But Right. Always find, and most of them will do it cuz they wanna make the sale. And so, you know, always find a way to get that, give yourself that security and have that option to get out because odds. Well, you know, a hundred percent that they're not gonna do everything that they said they would as fast as they would or as completely as they would.
But you know, you have your expectations. And maybe that's another thing. Set your expectations where if they give you 80% of what they're promising, you'd be satisfied. and, and say, you know, even of that 80%, if they gave me these five things. So if I can get these five problems fixed with this, Even if I have other problems, it's gonna be worth it cuz you know, it's, yeah, it's so good.
It's always a trade off, so, yeah. But, but having an out clause and being able to pull the plug on them keeps it, it, it allows you to keep some power, you know? Yeah. And it allows you to, to not have to pay for a service set is not working for you
[00:17:37] Chaz Wolfe: at all. Yeah, exactly. I love what you just said as far as setting the proper expectations in ourselves.
Like when we go to hire a service company, we can't just have these out of the world expectations and put things even on them, or even realize that like, okay, this guy's telling me, you know, 10, but really it's an eight and I just need to have some discernment here. Right? So what, what's the impact of my business?
Like, okay, so if they're able to do eight or even six, do the. Does it work? Okay, fine. So maybe it, maybe it's not what they told me it was gonna be, but does it make me money? Is that the whole point? There's some, there's some logic that you just kind of gave to us in there. Yeah. Yeah. Is it worth it?
[00:18:12] Mike DeLuca: You know, maybe it's time that you need to consider, maybe it's money that you need to consider.
Right. You know, but if you get a portion of what they're promising, do you think it would still be worth it? And then you try and then guess what? Most of 'em are gonna be, you're gonna change 'em and you're gonna find another service provider. I mean Yep. You know, there, there are certain things that we deal with where I've gone through four or five different service providers cuz they all promised the world and then, you know, but I, at this point, you know, this is the same thing with product reviews on our, on our website.
I just say, okay, we'll try it and no full well going into it that. I, I'm just probably gonna have to cancel whatever it is we're doing in the next year or so, cuz it's, it's just something's gonna be a problem, you know? And so there's all different kinds of places that you, you deal with that? Yeah, from, from just even like trash pickup, you know?
They charge you, they give you a good deal on your dumpster, and then two years later the price is double, which is what we're going through now, and I've gone through one other time. So it's like, yep. Little things like that, you just, you just need to expect it, I guess, if, if you
[00:19:11] Chaz Wolfe: can, so, yeah. Yeah.
That's interesting. My fruit provider on our, and our fruit franchises are, edible ranches, franchises. They always get you to sign the deal with super low prices, and then they just tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. Over the course of time on, on that piece that you were just talking about. As far as like, I gotta try out a bunch of them, knowing that I'm probably gonna fire 'em quickly and go on to the next.
You could, there's a little bit of a callous that we develop or a little bit of, almost like a cynicism of like, I don't believe that you can deliver what you're telling me, but yet in the same sentence you said, I'm just gonna keep trying them until I find one. So it's like there was optimism in what you were saying, like you gotta keep trying cuz you gotta find somebody.
But like I almost have like a pretty jaded perspective on like, I don't actually think that you can do this until proven other. Sure. How do you stay in that, that positive mindset of going like, I'm gonna give you a chance. I doubt you're gonna be able to do it, but I gotta find somebody, so I'm gonna keep giving chances.
How do you, how do you stay in that place?
[00:20:03] Mike DeLuca: Well, the truth is, I don't, most of the time, , most of the time you end up frustrated. That's honest, annoyed and throwing stuff across your desk or you know, what, whatever it might be. And it's only in hindsight that you get to go, okay, well yeah, I should have seen that coming, you know, and or I, I should have known that.
And so, you know, to talk about it is great, but you know, to, to be there in the. When these things happen. and sometimes you're just mad at yourself cuz it's like, well, I, I knew this. I, I should have known this was gonna happen, you know, and I ignored my gut or I, I, or whatever. and so, But you, you, it's the difference between hope and expectation, right?
Like you don't, yeah. Hope is not really an option. You know, expectations can be an option. You can choose your expectations, but you, if you, you have to have hope. Otherwise, you're just, you're not, you're not moving forward. There is no progress, you know, in, in any way.
[00:20:51] Chaz Wolfe: So, Yeah. Yeah. I also liked how the, the angle that you just gave there is that of course you're gonna have hope, but that doesn't mean that you just let them do whatever and you stick with somebody that's not working it out just because you have hope.
It's like, no, no, no, . I have hope that we're gonna find a solution, but you may not be it cuz you're not meeting expectations out the door. You go, you know, you
[00:21:09] Mike DeLuca: gotta try not to let it blind you if you can, but truthfully, you're, you're, it will at some point and then you just, hopefully every time you learn and you adjust and yeah.
You know, let it, let it sharpen, sharpen the steel a little bit there.
[00:21:21] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, understood. Mike, what about a bad decision, something that you've done along the way that, didn't work out at all that we can learn from and hopefully not repeat the same mistake?
[00:21:29] Mike DeLuca: Well, I would say my worst decisions are probably around hiring
So, you know, not all the time I've, I've got great hires, I've got, yeah, really good people and stuff, but not all the time. And so, sure. I think that that hope and expectation part really comes in when you're hiring people. The beginning, just like anything, it can be a lot of hope and there's a lot of promises made and, you know, maybe some exaggerations and untruths that are told on the, on the part of the candidate to get the job.
And so, you know, and then you get to work and every day and it's like, okay, well this is where we're at, six months later, one year later. And so, you know, it's very hard for you to have the candidate you. A year later, you know, like that person is not actually the person that you end up with a year later.
And sometimes that's good and, and sometimes it's fine and sometimes it's bad, you know? And so, right, right. that whole process is not now, I haven't had to do lots of hiring and firing. So we've been fortunate in that. and maybe that's something I need to be better at. You know, sometimes I keep people, because they know what they're doing and, and so my expectations are a certain thing.
And, and the thought of hiring, training. Finding is not enticing to me at all. You
[00:22:41] Chaz Wolfe: know, so. Yeah. Yeah. It keeps us sometimes locked in a place where we know we shouldn't be, but, but we stay there. . Yeah.
[00:22:47] Mike DeLuca: It's a, it's holding the tiger by the tail, man. It's like, you don't really wanna do it, but you, you don't let it go either, you know?
So it's, it's just, it's always a challenge and I don't think it'll ever not be a challenge. And everybody that I know that manages people or businesses or whatever, you know, unless they're able to delegate it completely to another manager. It's, it's always a, it's always a, a thing, you know? It's always a, a source of consternation.
Yeah,
[00:23:12] Chaz Wolfe: absolutely. What would you say to the person listening right now that's maybe dealing with this or has yet to deal with it and they're wondering best practices? Is there, are there questions up front that you like to ask? Is there a, like an interview or a hiring process that you go through to kind of try to find the right
[00:23:26] Mike DeLuca: people?
I don't really have one cause I don't have to do it all that. Sure. I, I wish I had a be a better process, to be honest with you. I've, I have some friends that are, you know, in sort of more institutional management positions, and so I, I pick their brains a little bit, but their, offerings might be different.
And so that's a factor. And their sort of company structure, industry structure might be different. And so that's a factor. And so it's, you know, I wish I could tell you I had a better system cuz I, but I don't . So it's, it's something that we're working on. You know, it's I'd love to have the option to choose from the best pool of candidates and have an infinite amount of people to choose from.
But when you're a small business, it's like, well this is what I can afford to pay somebody to do this job. Yeah. And you know, that's the first requirement. You don't get to just choose, okay, this is the person I want for the job. It's like, And we don't have a lot of positions where our employees can really value add revenue wise.
You know what I mean? Sure. Bottom line wise, what they could do is they could be valuable employees to us and, and work for what they're getting paid and stuff, but we don't have a lot of opportunities for them to, to add because sort of that falls under my, you know, my job at the company as far as, you know, adding product brands, things like that.
So now they can help, but it's hard to define. It's hard to quantify how much. You get from each one of these employees in the end,
[00:24:46] Chaz Wolfe: right? Yeah. Yeah. I think that, like you said earlier, the institutional or the, the more corporate environments, some of your friends like that have, they've got systems in place, right?
That that's, I mean, they're hiring hundreds of people or thousands of people, a month or even a year. And, and so yeah, I think that systems and process and, and maybe certain questions that. Kinda help us align with the, the person, but Right to your point, it's not, it's not ever gonna be a perfect formula, even in the corporate environments that I've worked in years ago.
It was never a perfect environment. Right. And a lot of times, it's the same thing that you mentioned there. They just put you through a process and it still pops out on the other end of like, ah, bummer. I wish I would've known that ahead of time. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think it all goes back to the, the old adage of like, you know, higher, slow fire, fast.
Yeah. which is tough in itself, but Right. We can slow down the hiring process, ask really good questions, really put them in situations. Give us some insight on how they think and how they operate. How they would deal in a, in a, in an environment like ours. And then if they're not a good fit, which is tough.
So tough. Yeah.
[00:25:47] Mike DeLuca: Yeah. It's hard. I mean, once you commit to somebody, especially, you know, it's hard to fire fast when you hire slow because you've gone through that process of like, Committing to that person. And then, and then there are things that you, you're like, okay, yeah, thi whatever made you think that that was the right person is all the reasons that you don't fire fast because you think , like they'll figure it out.
Do this or, yeah. Right. You know, so it's like, yeah, it's real. Like all things, it's easier said than done. And, and when you're a small business and you need somebody to be there to do that job, right? Like somebody's got to be there. It's like, well, what do. Yeah. Now we don't have anybody doing this PO in this position.
Now we're not satisfying our customer's needs. And so it's like, well, is this person satisfying what we need them to do at 85%? Good enough to keep the wheels on? Yeah. Yeah. Maybe you don't fire '
[00:26:35] Chaz Wolfe: em. Yeah. Well there's like everything that you just said is a, is a right mindset. Not necessarily of like a lowering of a standard, but his or her a hundred percent might look like you're 85%.
Yeah. And that's okay. Like, right, we are, we, are we aligned morally? Are we aligned in our mission? Are we actually a accomplishing, serving the client in a, in a, in a, in a wholesome way? Well then yeah, like, let them, let them be there. A hundred percent. Although maybe if you were in their position, maybe you would do it differently.
That's okay. Like, right. That's just leadership and letting people have some autonomy. Yeah.
[00:27:07] Mike DeLuca: Is the job getting done? And, and I, and I'm not a micromanager and, and I know lots of different people are, but. When I do hire, I want my people to come in and I'll define for them what their, what their role is, what their job is, which is truthfully, you know, in a small company it's a little bit everything, everybody overlaps and stuff.
but I want to be able to let them go. And so that to me is sort of the biggest thing that I'm always watching for. It's like, do I need to stay on top of this person to do their job all the time? Cuz that's the number one factor that's gonna, you know, that I, I'm just not gonna tolerate, you know, like you're not.
You're not getting paid so that I have to make a job of staying on top of you, right? Yeah.
[00:27:45] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. You're hiring professionals. All right, Mike, we're gonna go to the speed round here. My first questions around KPIs, the way I like to say it is this, if you could only pick one thing to track, everything else falls to the side.
What's that one thing?
[00:27:58] Mike DeLuca: It would probably be revenue, assuming I get to know what my margins are. Sure. Okay. And so, you know, our margins are fairly fixed, you know, and. . So revenue is a key number for me cuz I can base everything else off of that. but yeah, as long as I get, I get my profit margin and I know what it is, then I would say revenue.
[00:28:17] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, you can grow that number. And like you said, the delineation of, if I know that, then it's like, you know, kind of the rest of the spreadsheet falls in. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's how you manage a business from one number is, is, is, I still gotta know all the rest of them. . Yeah. But they all, they all come down to one point is,
[00:28:34] Mike DeLuca: is useless.
Right? So, you know, you could be higher revenue, low margins and you know, there's a scale there, but, but once you know what your margins are, revenue is, to me the the most important.
thing
[00:28:45] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, that's actually, I mean, cuz we can have a conversation. There's obviously been a people that have answered this question that say net profit.
There's been people that said culture and people, like, I get all different types of answers, which is great. Yeah. to your point though, around the, the revenue, and you're right, it's not necessarily about what you make, it's about what you keep. But once you know the business, so like for example, at one point in time I had seven locations of edible arrangements, franchises.
I just have a few left today. I knew when I was purchasing location four, five, and six, all in the same month that I could look at that one. I could look at their top line and I didn't really care about how they were running the business because I knew how to run the business. Right. And I knew some staples, basically how I would run it and what that number would pop out on the end.
So all I really cared about was what was the top line, cuz I could make the numbers work in the rest of the formula.
[00:29:31] Mike DeLuca: Yeah, to figure, map in underneath
[00:29:33] Chaz Wolfe: it. Yep. Exactly, exactly. What book would you recommend or maybe a resource Mike for a business owner trying to grow their business?
[00:29:40] Mike DeLuca: I don't know. I mean, I've lo I've learned a lot on the job, fortunately and, and unfortunately, and I, I certainly didn't take, a path towards business.
I mean, I, I would say, you know, to continue reading, I, the problem is I find out so many business books just don't apply to small businesses. You know, you could find a hundred books right now about some guy who started a, has a startup or a tech startup or whatever, and he's telling you how you can work your week out.
And it's like, none of this applies, you know? Sure. Absolutely nothing applies. So, I mean, I'd, I'd love to see, you know, kinda like what you do with your podcasts and stuff. I, I don't know of resources like that where it's not a top down and I just don't trust most of the people that tell you how to, who are business managers and tell you what to do to be successful in business.
It's like, well, you're more successful at telling people how to be in business than you are in business, as far as I can tell. So like, I don't know. I, I don't have a good source. I, I, I like to think that I've got a decent meter and at telling when people are, are full of it or not, or not sure. So I don't, I don't, I don't have one.
I'd love, I'd love for somebody to give me some guidance, but Awesome. But I don't, I don't have one other than, you know, the books that matter, you know, I mean, anytime you get to read a book that's a couple hundred years old, that's people still read and get something out of, I mean, you can always use something.
There's always something in one of those books that you could find a way to apply to just about anything.
[00:31:05] Chaz Wolfe: Sure. Yeah. Understood. Yeah. And I think that generally speaking, entrepreneurs. You know, whether it's cynical or like I, I'm doing, I'm over here doing my own thing, and so it's not that maybe that we don't trust, but it's like, you know, I wanna, I, I, I'm stubborn, I'm, I'm cynical.
Like all these things kind of applied entrepreneurs. . And so I think your answer is real. you know, I think that whether it's reading, whether it's a podcast, whether it's Yeah. An old book, I mean Think and Grow Rich is, you know, over a hundred years old and that's one of my favorites, you know? Yeah. So there's a lot of things that you can pull out from principles, not necessarily tactics, but principles, you know?
Sure.
[00:31:41] Mike DeLuca: And just keeping sharp, you know, and just, you know, books are a, a great way to basical. Take somebody else's examples, you know? I mean, that's what it is, that's what a story's about, right? Is less like, all right, well we don't wanna do that, or we do want to do that. And so when you put that all together, you can always use it for business or life or whatever.
I mean, that, that's all we're really doing here is we're dealing with people,
[00:32:02] Chaz Wolfe: you know, so. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. There's a lot of, a lot of, a lot of people skills and a lot of, yeah. Ways that you can grow in that way, that's for sure. sure. What do you think about intentionally networking or even masterminding with other entre.
[00:32:15] Mike DeLuca: I haven't done it. I mean, I've been, sort of like we, we just talked about, I've been sort of hesitant in the past cuz I just feel like so much of it is just, there's something about it that doesn't appeal to my, my sensibilities, I guess. sure to put it politely, but, you know, I'm, unfortunately, I'm deeply aware of my, of my limitations as a human being.
So, I I'm not opposed to it. I, I'm at the point. On past survival mode, you know? And so now it's like, okay, everything that I was sort of built to do by myself was for that part. And now it's like, well, those things aren't the same traits or features that I need to have to get to that next level. So I would say I, I'm much more open to it now than I, I would've been in the past when it was just put your nose down and go.
[00:33:04] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, in my own story, I relate to that. I think that there's, there, like you said, survival. We call it the, the warrior mode. Yeah. And it's just about putting your head down and getting stuff done. survival literally, or just there's just a period of time where you kind of have to be selfish in order to grow a business.
Then eventually it gets to a point where you have resources or that you're leveraging time or even key relationships. Even like this right here, . Yeah. And, and you start having more impact and you start when you, when you kind of transition that mindset to not just survival, but now impact. It's like, okay, there's, there's actually a lot more people that I'm like, that are weighing Yeah.
In on this decision. and then the value of relationships just goes through the roof. And so I think that you're spot on. You're right, you're right in that, that mental transition where I, I mean, I, I can, I know exactly where I was when I was thinking those exact same things going, this. In my mind, very valuable to me in the past, but I've quickly since realized in the la you know, in the last probably decade of like, wow.
Like these are some of the things that really matter. And, and it doesn't have to be in a, like a paid coach or a, you know, you go to a, a big conference where it costs a lot. I mean, it doesn't have to be like that. Sure. it can be you and a guy across the, across the town doing lunch every Thursday. Yeah.
And that's far more interesting
[00:34:15] Mike DeLuca: to me than scratching back and. Yeah, as long as it's mutually, it's just going back to our business really. It has, everything has to be mutually beneficial. or we're just you, you're not, it's not gonna last. Right. And and so a lot of those other things that you mentioned don't seem to, I mean, maybe people get benefi.
I'm sure people get. There's a benefit to them, but it, yeah, seems like one person is benefiting more than the rest of the people in those types of relationships. So, so that's not something I'm, I'm ever interested in, but communicating. I, I mean, I, I, I do always believe that, communications, you know, how all of us get better, smarter and, and, you know, just learn from other people's opinions and, and experiences, really.
[00:34:53] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, absolutely. I got a question for you about, and I know that, we talked off air a little bit about our, our kiddos and, and families and such, but you know, we've got a business and we've kind of got have a certain level of obsession with that in order to be successful. As you just kind of described the survival of it, how do you apply that same kind of obsession to your family at the same time as having to do that inside your business?
Yeah.
[00:35:16] Mike DeLuca: Well, I'm gonna tell you, I don't know. Again, , you know, we, we, we muddle through it as best we can. and that changes with time. And so, you know, for me, one of, one of my big, this is actually coming back to that goal thing, one of my big goals was to have enough time to actually spend time with my kids.
Cuz when I bought the company from my dad, my wife got pregnant with our, with our son. and so, you know, my goal part of owning this business is, yeah, you wanna do well financially and stuff like that. Time can't be bought. And so I, you can have all the, all the money in the world. You still can't buy time.
And so, you know, I, I started to wonder about what's worth more? Is it time or is it money? And so now you only get to do that when you're not in warrior mode, right? This is something that comes later. But, I've gotten to the point where, you know, I'm able to have a little bit more time. I've got staff, I have resources like you said, and so.
And I'm able to spend time with my family more so, but then you always wonder, is this coming at price and, and the business is the thing that allows that. And if you're not focusing on the business enough, then that goes away. But how much is too much? And so it's never ending. It's a spectrum and like you'll probably never get it a hundred percent right.
But if you keep sort of trying, I, I think you kind of hone in over time on what works for you or your family or your goals and you know,
[00:36:37] Chaz Wolfe: Yeah, I think you gave a really honest and, and even genuine, just like you said, a spectrum there of going, well, when I do this, it takes away from this and vice, you know, back forth by vice versa.
And, and you're right, it does. That's why we build teams or systems or key roles, or that's why we have conversations, communication, like you're talking about with your spouse and getting on the same page and like, you gotta be intentional about all of that. That's what obsession is though. Like if I'm not in, if I'm not obsessed with my wife and kids, then I'm not intentional with them, even around the communication.
Like, Hey, for the next three weeks I'm gonna be X, y, z with the business and or whatever. Like there's just, it's just being on the same page, being in a. , which comes from intentionality, which comes from obsession. yeah. If we're not obsessed with it, then why you spend time on it, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
[00:37:21] Mike DeLuca: You, you have to be, and, and you'll notice when, you know, cuz there's times where that obsession waivers, at least for me it does. And it's like, yeah. all right, I got it. I got the point. You know, it's, yeah. We gotta get back to it.
[00:37:31] Chaz Wolfe: So, yeah. Oh yeah. I, I think, I think we, anybody listening right now, has had that conversation that knock on the door of like, excuse me.
We're, we're here. Yeah. . Right. Right. Which is, which is, you know, you know, honestly from my perspective, why I started asking the questions, because I've been walking this out myself for, for years. Mm-hmm. and, and I don't have it figured out either, but I know the importance of. Paying attention and being intentional and, and obsessing over here and, and I don't claim to have it perfect either, but I'm trying to curate environments even like this right here where we can go, okay, let's just talk about the real thing.
Because I almost have found zero entrepreneurs that say, you know what, Chaz, I have the perfect formula for that. Yeah, , right? I think we've all got this, this like general consensus of like, Mm. Yeah. If my wife was listening right now, I don't know if she would agree with my answer, you know? You know what I mean?
Exactly. But
[00:38:19] Mike DeLuca: the question is then my wife might, might not agree with this either, but have you gotten better? And it's like, have we gotten better at this? Has this gone. You know, like even though we're going back and forth and Yeah, and we're seasonal, so it's a little bit difficult at times, but you know, right where we were five years ago and how much time we spent at business and apart and whatever, you know?
Yeah. Getting to see your kids for an hour before you put 'em to bed is not enough, you know, because getting to spend an hour with your spouse before bed is good, certainly better than nothing, but some people get 15 minutes, half hour, and, and that's not enough. And so the question that I ask is like, all right, well, have we gotten better at those things?
And. It come at a, at a fair price, business-wise? Well, yeah. I don't know. I mean, I just, it's, it's gonna come at a price there, there's an expense for everything. So there
[00:39:04] Chaz Wolfe: is, there is. And, and that's, that's being a good steward, when you know that there's a trade-off. And, and that's okay. Sometimes we, we make those trade-offs Sure.
to, to be purposeful and intentional in our decisions. Right. I got one last question here for you, Mike. You ready? Yep. I wanna know if you had a chance to whisper in the younger Mike's. What
[00:39:22] Mike DeLuca: would you say? Fault man. I would just say just have a little faith. Things are gonna work out better than you think they are most of the time.
Tell me more. Well, I, I'm here accidentally in the end, you know, I mean, , so it's, there are so many, every big thing in my life has been. Not when I tried to push forward, not when I tried to force things. It's been sort of when I, I've, I've just let them happen and sort of followed what the signs that were sort of being given to me or the options that were available and took the best course forward.
And so I would say, you know, trust yourself, trust your instincts and, and, and, and, and just trust that those instincts are are gonna get you where you want. Eventually, eventually, not right away. Eventually. It's
[00:40:17] Chaz Wolfe: a really, really, really positive word for any entrepreneur listening right now. sometimes it is quick.
yeah, most of the times it's not.
[00:40:25] Mike DeLuca: No. And some things are quicker than, than you expect them to be. Right? I mean, I'm fairly, I didn't expect to be in a position that we're in today. It's not over. So it's like you're still, there's, there's plenty to be done, but you, you always come back. You have to have principles or ins, you know, you, you have to have those things there that core there to, to lean on at all times.
And so I, I would just kind of remind myself to just always just trust it. You're gonna, you're not going to want to, sometimes it's gonna seem like the wrong thing to do. You're gonna see other people succeeding, not doing those things. And, that's, that's a shortcut and the shortcut. Not usually gonna get you where you want to.
[00:41:02] Chaz Wolfe: So Good man. how can we find you, Mike? Of course. If, if anybody listening right now needs, motorcycle parts or accessories, anything that they want, not need, that's right. Where can they find that? And then also how can they connect with
[00:41:14] Mike DeLuca: you as an entrepreneur? So it's west end motorsports.com. if you need anything for your parley Indian motorcycles, you know, any kind of v twin, that's basically what we do.
We do some side by side stuff as well. Not repair parts, like you said, that that's not our game. But, I'm not on social media , so, so you can't find me. Hopefully, that's, that's the goal. you can always find my work email somewhere if you, if you're really after me and, like you did and, and we'll go from there.
But, I, I am, committed to avoiding. Social media, at this point in my life as much as possible. So
[00:41:45] Chaz Wolfe: That's awesome. Well, I think that, like you said, for, for those that are determined, we will find how to contact you. Yeah, just like, just like we did. So I just so appreciate your time, Mike.
You've been, helpful and honest. I love the interview, because you're honest and I think that it will relate to a lot of entrepreneurs. So thank you for being here. Blessings on your family and, your team, all the stuff that you got going on here in 23. Thank you for being here, brother. Same to you.
[00:42:06] Mike DeLuca: Thanks Jess.
In this episode, we hear from Mike Deluca, the President of WestEndMotorSports.com, an eCommerce business selling motorcycle parts. Mike shares the story of the family company, which was almost lost in the 2010s but has grown at a 20% rate each year since he took over in 2017. Mike emphasizes the importance of being an expert, hiring professionals, keeping an option to get out of a contract with service providers, and having a pessimistic optimism when working with vendors. He also shares the challenges they faced when the website and products were built up and how better marketing was instrumental to their success. Don't miss this inspiring episode of business success and insights.
Mike Deluca:
Website: https://www.westendmotorsports.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/westendmotorsports/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/westendmotorsports2004/
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